1
00:00:00,303 --> 00:00:02,016
龙树的药方治了旧病

2
00:00:02,302 --> 00:00:03,596
又埋下了新的

3
00:00:03,903 --> 00:00:05,476
上一期留了个悬念

4
00:00:05,942 --> 00:00:09,076
龙树用来拆别人房子的那把逻辑之刀

5
00:00:09,182 --> 00:00:10,656
本身有没有自性

6
00:00:12,289 --> 00:00:12,763
如果有

7
00:00:13,130 --> 00:00:14,942
他自己就违背了缘起

8
00:00:15,170 --> 00:00:16,182
如果没有

9
00:00:16,209 --> 00:00:19,363
他凭什么用一把空的刀去拆别人的房子

10
00:00:19,849 --> 00:00:20,322
这个问题

11
00:00:20,770 --> 00:00:22,743
是对手当面质问他的

12
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而龙树的回答

13
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是整个中观哲学最精彩 也最令人困惑的部分

14
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哈喽

15
00:00:29,613 --> 00:00:30,046
大家好

16
00:00:30,214 --> 00:00:31,226
我是王利杰

17
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龙树的回答写在 回诤论 里

18
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大意可以浓缩成一句话

19
00:00:36,333 --> 00:00:38,027
我的刀也是空的

20
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对手肯定追问

21
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一把空的刀怎么能切东西

22
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龙树说

23
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恰恰因为它是空的

24
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它才能切

25
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我第一次读到这段时

26
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觉得像在打禅机

27
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绕了好几天没绕出来

28
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后来有一天去药房买感冒药

29
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突然想通了

30
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你去医院看病

31
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医生给你开了一种药

32
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这种药的作用是清除你体内多余的东西

33
00:01:02,453 --> 00:01:04,307
药本身也是化学物质

34
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吃下去之后发挥作用

35
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然后被代谢掉

36
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它不会留在你体内变成一个永久的器官

37
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你也不需要给这颗药赋予什么永恒的本质

38
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它照样能治病

39
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龙树说的就是这个意思

40
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他的论证是一剂药

41
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目的是清除你思维里多余的假设

42
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就是那个自性

43
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药到了

44
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病除了

45
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药自己也代谢掉了

46
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如果一颗药吃下去不能被代谢

47
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一直留在你身体里

48
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那它就不叫药了

49
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那叫结石

50
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所以当对手说你的理论本身也是空的

51
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龙树不但不否认

52
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反而说

53
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没错

54
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空也是空的

55
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这正好证明了我的论点

56
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这个回答精彩在哪

57
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它堵死了一条路

58
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你不能拿你也是空的

59
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来反驳一个本来就承认自己空的人

60
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这就像你指着一位清洁工说

61
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你手里的扫帚也是脏的

62
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清洁工会说

63
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对

64
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扫帚也是脏的

65
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扫完地

66
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扫帚和垃圾一起扔掉就行

67
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我从没说过扫帚是干净的

68
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但光说空也是空还不够

69
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龙树把所有的房子都拆了

70
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包括自己的

71
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那人住哪

72
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如果一切皆空

73
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包括你的论证 你的方法 甚至空本身

74
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那日常生活怎么运转

75
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因果还成不成立

76
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修行还有没有意义

77
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你总不能全用一个空字打发掉吧

78
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龙树当然也想到了

79
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他给出的解决方案

80
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是在一切皆空这个大前提下

81
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分出两个层次来安置人的生活

82
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第一个层次是日常世界的层面

83
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在这个层面上

84
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桌子就是桌子

85
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因果就是因果

86
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修行就是修行

87
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我们用语言 概念和逻辑来运作

88
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这套东西确实管用

89
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你不能说因为一切皆空

90
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所以不吃饭了

91
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不上班了

92
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不照顾家人了

93
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那不是觉悟

94
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那是犯傻

95
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第二个层次是究竟实相的层面

96
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在这个层面上

97
00:03:06,986 --> 00:03:09,118
桌子 因果 修行

98
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包括空这个字本身

99
00:03:10,746 --> 00:03:12,718
都没有独立自存的本质

100
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它们之所以成立

101
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是因为互相依存 因缘和合

102
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不是因为各自有什么坚硬的内核撑在那里

103
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关键来了

104
00:03:21,586 --> 00:03:23,385
这两个层次不是对立的

105
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不是一个真一个假

106
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龙树讲得很直白

107
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若不依俗谛

108
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不得第一义

109
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意思是

110
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你必须先在日常世界的语言和概念里站稳脚跟

111
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才有可能透过它们看到那个究竟的实相

112
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想绕开日常生活直达究竟真理

113
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做不到

114
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就像你不可能跳过学拼音直接去写小说

115
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关于这两个层次的详细哲学拆解

116
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我们在会员专区用一整期专门拆过

117
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今天我只想从历史的角度讲一件事

118
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这个框架为什么重要

119
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重要在于

120
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它替龙树挡住了最致命的攻击

121
00:04:03,003 --> 00:04:05,376
中论 第二十四品里有一段话

122
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是整部论最关键的表态

123
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当时有人攻击龙树说

124
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你说一切皆空

125
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那因果没了

126
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修行没了

127
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佛法僧三宝也没了

128
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你不是在弘法

129
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你是在毁法

130
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在那个时代的印度思想界

131
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这个指控的杀伤力极大

132
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因为如果一个佛教学者被认定为毁法者

133
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他在整个佛教世界里就站不住了

134
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不管你逻辑多精密

135
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没人会跟一个毁法者辩论

136
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龙树的回击只有一句话

137
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你搞反了

138
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他原文的意思是这样的

139
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正因为一切事物没有固定不变的本质

140
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它们才能生成 变化 互相作用

141
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你想想

142
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一杯水如果有永恒不变的水的自性

143
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它就永远只能是水

144
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不可能变成冰

145
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也不可能变成蒸汽

146
00:04:54,329 --> 00:04:57,369
恰恰因为它没有一个叫做水的固定本质

147
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它才可以随因缘变化

148
00:05:00,263 --> 00:05:02,516
所以空不是否定一切

149
00:05:02,984 --> 00:05:06,316
空是让一切得以运转的前提条件

150
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没有空

151
00:05:07,663 --> 00:05:09,157
就什么都不会发生

152
00:05:09,504 --> 00:05:11,436
这个翻转实在漂亮

153
00:05:11,864 --> 00:05:14,917
对手把空当作虚无主义来攻击

154
00:05:15,143 --> 00:05:16,516
龙树告诉他们

155
00:05:16,544 --> 00:05:18,997
空恰恰是反虚无主义的

156
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执着于自性的人才是真正的虚无主义者

157
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因为一个什么都不能变的世界

158
00:05:25,823 --> 00:05:27,316
表面上什么都有

159
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实际上什么都不可能发生

160
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到这里

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我们暂停一下

162
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拉回那个贯穿全系列的校准问题

163
00:05:35,420 --> 00:05:36,540
龙树的工作

164
00:05:36,540 --> 00:05:39,153
距离佛陀在菩提树下看到的东西

165
00:05:39,340 --> 00:05:40,773
是近了还是远了

166
00:05:41,261 --> 00:05:42,434
答案很清楚

167
00:05:42,580 --> 00:05:44,414
龙树是在守卫缘起

168
00:05:44,741 --> 00:05:46,354
不是在改写缘起

169
00:05:46,501 --> 00:05:49,474
佛陀说万物因缘和合而生

170
00:05:49,621 --> 00:05:51,474
无一物可独立存在

171
00:05:51,741 --> 00:05:53,994
后来的学者在分析佛法时

172
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不知不觉给分析工具本身赋予了独立性

173
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龙树做的事

174
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是把那层附加物清理掉

175
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让佛陀原始的缘起洞见重新显露出来

176
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他的刀没有指向佛法

177
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而是指向后人加在佛法上面的锈

178
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从这个意义上说

179
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中观不是一次革新

180
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而是一次修复

181
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但修复完之后

182
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新的问题来了

183
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而且这些问题不是理论本身的缺陷

184
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而是理论在真实世界落地时

185
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产生了龙树没有预见到的困难

186
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历史证明

187
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他的药方治了旧病

188
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同时埋下了至少两个新的隐患

189
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第一个隐患

190
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诊断精准

191
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但缺处方

192
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龙树的归谬法无比锋利

193
00:06:40,109 --> 00:06:41,263
你提出任何立场

194
00:06:41,429 --> 00:06:43,083
他都能从内部瓦解

195
00:06:43,270 --> 00:06:45,229
可当修行者走到他面前

196
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说我知道一切皆空了

197
00:06:47,350 --> 00:06:48,282
然后呢

198
00:06:48,390 --> 00:06:50,063
他能给的方向只有一个

199
00:06:50,470 --> 00:06:51,883
继续看到空

200
00:06:52,865 --> 00:06:55,438
后来有越来越多的修行者发现

201
00:06:55,544 --> 00:06:58,757
知道一切皆空和活出一切皆空之间

202
00:06:58,784 --> 00:07:00,597
隔着一道巨大的鸿沟

203
00:07:01,305 --> 00:07:02,298
你坐在蒲团上

204
00:07:02,625 --> 00:07:03,623
观呼吸

205
00:07:03,625 --> 00:07:04,298
观念头

206
00:07:04,625 --> 00:07:06,197
发现它们都是空的

207
00:07:06,664 --> 00:07:07,217
然后呢

208
00:07:08,065 --> 00:07:08,738
你一下座

209
00:07:09,024 --> 00:07:10,983
菜场大妈多收你五块钱

210
00:07:10,984 --> 00:07:12,318
你还是会生气

211
00:07:12,904 --> 00:07:14,597
你知道愤怒是空的

212
00:07:14,664 --> 00:07:17,358
可这个知道并不能让愤怒消失

213
00:07:17,775 --> 00:07:20,008
我的贪嗔痴到底是怎么产生的

214
00:07:20,416 --> 00:07:21,688
经由什么路径运作

215
00:07:22,176 --> 00:07:24,289
从哪个环节可以一步步拆除

216
00:07:24,895 --> 00:07:26,289
这些操作层面的问题

217
00:07:26,816 --> 00:07:28,148
龙树没有展开

218
00:07:28,455 --> 00:07:29,748
不是他不关心

219
00:07:30,015 --> 00:07:30,974
是他认为

220
00:07:30,976 --> 00:07:33,349
只要你真正深入地理解了空

221
00:07:33,575 --> 00:07:35,948
实修会自然水到渠成

222
00:07:36,496 --> 00:07:38,308
可对绝大多数人来说

223
00:07:38,416 --> 00:07:41,508
真正理解空本身就是最难的那一步

224
00:07:41,736 --> 00:07:44,549
你告诉一个溺水的人水其实是空的

225
00:07:44,616 --> 00:07:45,815
他理论上同意

226
00:07:45,816 --> 00:07:47,268
可他还是在呛水

227
00:07:47,872 --> 00:07:48,625
第二个隐患

228
00:07:48,952 --> 00:07:50,006
空的滥用

229
00:07:50,192 --> 00:07:51,386
龙树反复强调

230
00:07:51,713 --> 00:07:53,165
空不是虚无

231
00:07:53,312 --> 00:07:54,485
可他走之后

232
00:07:54,512 --> 00:07:57,006
不是所有人都守得住这条线

233
00:07:57,273 --> 00:08:00,086
有些人拿一切皆空当挡箭牌

234
00:08:00,273 --> 00:08:01,466
既然一切皆空

235
00:08:01,793 --> 00:08:03,026
修行何必认真

236
00:08:03,432 --> 00:08:04,225
善恶都空

237
00:08:04,552 --> 00:08:05,826
因果何必在意

238
00:08:07,056 --> 00:08:07,729
这种理解

239
00:08:07,976 --> 00:08:10,109
后来被论师们叫做恶取空

240
00:08:10,296 --> 00:08:12,829
也正是龙树最担心的那种误解

241
00:08:13,137 --> 00:08:14,450
他甚至专门警告过

242
00:08:14,897 --> 00:08:15,909
空这个东西

243
00:08:16,176 --> 00:08:17,690
你理解对了是解药

244
00:08:18,056 --> 00:08:19,750
理解歪了是毒药

245
00:08:20,096 --> 00:08:22,895
就像不会抓蛇的人非要去捉毒蛇

246
00:08:22,897 --> 00:08:24,310
最后反被咬死

247
00:08:24,536 --> 00:08:27,630
可他不可能永远站在旁边替每个人把关

248
00:08:28,428 --> 00:08:30,522
还有些人走向另一个极端

249
00:08:31,029 --> 00:08:32,027
嘴上说空

250
00:08:32,029 --> 00:08:34,721
心里却把空当成了另一种自性

251
00:08:35,188 --> 00:08:36,548
他们抓着空不放

252
00:08:36,548 --> 00:08:38,827
就像一个人扔掉了所有行李

253
00:08:38,829 --> 00:08:42,201
却紧紧攥着那张写着什么都不要带的纸条

254
00:08:42,949 --> 00:08:44,147
龙树在世时

255
00:08:44,148 --> 00:08:46,921
能用逻辑把这些歪路一条条堵死

256
00:08:47,148 --> 00:08:47,961
他一走

257
00:08:47,988 --> 00:08:51,522
歪路就像草一样从地基的缝隙里冒了出来

258
00:08:51,914 --> 00:08:54,807
中观学派后来分裂成两大支

259
00:08:55,193 --> 00:08:55,866
一支认为

260
00:08:56,193 --> 00:08:57,713
在论证空性时

261
00:08:57,713 --> 00:09:00,207
你需要先立一个暂时的前提

262
00:09:00,353 --> 00:09:02,567
哪怕这个前提是权宜之计

263
00:09:02,713 --> 00:09:05,886
否则对方根本不知道你在论证什么

264
00:09:06,154 --> 00:09:09,087
另一支坚持龙树的纯粹归谬

265
00:09:09,193 --> 00:09:10,607
不立任何前提

266
00:09:10,634 --> 00:09:13,246
只借对方的逻辑来推翻对方

267
00:09:13,713 --> 00:09:14,506
在他们看来

268
00:09:14,833 --> 00:09:16,632
一旦你立了自己的前提

269
00:09:16,634 --> 00:09:18,126
就已经偏离了空

270
00:09:18,593 --> 00:09:20,807
这场争论持续了几百年

271
00:09:20,873 --> 00:09:22,567
至今没有完全终结

272
00:09:22,914 --> 00:09:23,953
某种意义上

273
00:09:23,953 --> 00:09:25,786
这正是龙树方法论的代价

274
00:09:26,314 --> 00:09:27,807
一把太锋利的刀

275
00:09:27,914 --> 00:09:30,207
连握刀的手也会被割伤

276
00:09:30,896 --> 00:09:32,669
但对佛教思想史来说

277
00:09:32,697 --> 00:09:34,856
比这场内部争论更要紧的

278
00:09:34,857 --> 00:09:37,270
是它暴露出的一个更深层的问题

279
00:09:37,697 --> 00:09:40,150
龙树证明了一切法无自性

280
00:09:40,337 --> 00:09:40,530
好

281
00:09:40,776 --> 00:09:41,589
接受了

282
00:09:41,697 --> 00:09:42,049
可是

283
00:09:42,296 --> 00:09:44,229
如果一切法都无自性

284
00:09:44,337 --> 00:09:45,569
那请解释一个现象

285
00:09:45,977 --> 00:09:48,410
为什么每个人的人生轨迹如此不同

286
00:09:48,977 --> 00:09:50,329
你的贪和我的嗔

287
00:09:50,656 --> 00:09:51,990
明明都是空的

288
00:09:52,097 --> 00:09:55,770
为什么它们的表现形式和运作模式千差万别

289
00:09:56,337 --> 00:09:59,089
为什么有人天生暴躁有人天生温和

290
00:09:59,536 --> 00:10:00,729
为什么同样的经历

291
00:10:01,016 --> 00:10:02,216
有人能看破

292
00:10:02,217 --> 00:10:03,729
有人一辈子执迷不悟

293
00:10:04,787 --> 00:10:05,760
换个说法

294
00:10:06,148 --> 00:10:09,480
龙树证明了大楼的地基上不应该有自性

295
00:10:09,748 --> 00:10:10,620
可他没有回答

296
00:10:10,988 --> 00:10:13,380
那这栋大楼到底是用什么建的

297
00:10:13,868 --> 00:10:15,301
你说砖头不该有自性

298
00:10:15,707 --> 00:10:16,147
好

299
00:10:16,148 --> 00:10:17,880
那总得有别的材料吧

300
00:10:18,354 --> 00:10:19,147
一切皆空

301
00:10:19,514 --> 00:10:20,753
可空的世界里

302
00:10:20,754 --> 00:10:22,667
为什么会长出这么多不同的东西

303
00:10:23,394 --> 00:10:24,427
差异从哪来

304
00:10:24,994 --> 00:10:26,226
经验由什么承载

305
00:10:26,713 --> 00:10:27,907
记忆存在何处

306
00:10:28,553 --> 00:10:29,366
这些问题

307
00:10:29,553 --> 00:10:33,167
中观哲学给不出一个令所有人满意的答案

308
00:10:34,015 --> 00:10:34,448
于是

309
00:10:34,816 --> 00:10:36,749
在龙树之后一两百年

310
00:10:36,775 --> 00:10:38,389
印度出现了两兄弟

311
00:10:38,576 --> 00:10:39,828
哥哥叫无著

312
00:10:39,895 --> 00:10:42,428
是两人里先转入大乘的那个

313
00:10:42,456 --> 00:10:45,228
据说在定中受弥勒菩萨的教导

314
00:10:45,535 --> 00:10:46,448
弟弟叫世亲

315
00:10:46,816 --> 00:10:48,909
是说一切有部的大学者

316
00:10:49,015 --> 00:10:50,728
写过一部著名的 俱舍论

317
00:10:51,135 --> 00:10:53,629
系统总结了有部的哲学体系

318
00:10:54,056 --> 00:10:55,534
弟弟看不起大乘

319
00:10:55,535 --> 00:10:57,255
认为那是后人编造的

320
00:10:57,255 --> 00:10:58,389
不是佛说

321
00:10:58,856 --> 00:11:01,068
据说哥哥让弟弟读了一部经

322
00:11:01,375 --> 00:11:02,308
弟弟读完

323
00:11:02,415 --> 00:11:05,588
才惊觉自己以前写的东西全是废纸

324
00:11:05,696 --> 00:11:07,308
差一点割舌自尽

325
00:11:07,736 --> 00:11:08,728
哥哥拦住他说

326
00:11:09,175 --> 00:11:11,828
你以前用那条舌头诽谤大乘

327
00:11:11,895 --> 00:11:14,509
现在就用同一条舌头去弘扬它

328
00:11:15,149 --> 00:11:17,601
这两兄弟做了一件龙树没做的事

329
00:11:17,989 --> 00:11:19,587
他们不再拆房子了

330
00:11:19,588 --> 00:11:22,082
而是重新设计了一套建筑材料

331
00:11:22,389 --> 00:11:24,601
这套材料既不违背缘起

332
00:11:24,668 --> 00:11:27,302
又能回答龙树留下的那个悬而未决的问题

333
00:11:27,989 --> 00:11:28,861
空的世界里

334
00:11:29,188 --> 00:11:30,861
差异是怎么长出来的

335
00:11:31,389 --> 00:11:33,021
经验是由什么承载的

336
00:11:33,468 --> 00:11:35,902
修行的路径到底该怎么一步步走

337
00:11:36,629 --> 00:11:38,521
他们叫无著和世亲

338
00:11:38,828 --> 00:11:39,942
他们创立的体系

339
00:11:40,149 --> 00:11:41,562
后来叫唯识

340
00:11:42,614 --> 00:11:45,866
这也是佛教思想史上反复出现的一条规律

341
00:11:46,173 --> 00:11:47,653
每一个伟大的回答

342
00:11:47,654 --> 00:11:50,346
都会变成下一个更大问题的起点

343
00:11:50,654 --> 00:11:51,966
龙树清理了地基

344
00:11:52,293 --> 00:11:53,947
却留下了一片空地

345
00:11:54,134 --> 00:11:55,293
一两百年后

346
00:11:55,293 --> 00:12:00,067
有人开始在这片空地上重新设计图纸 重新动工建楼

347
00:12:00,654 --> 00:12:01,167
下一期

348
00:12:01,494 --> 00:12:03,746
我们讲无著和世亲的故事

349
00:12:03,974 --> 00:12:04,646
一对兄弟

350
00:12:04,894 --> 00:12:06,307
一次彻底的转向

351
00:12:06,453 --> 00:12:10,266
一个从空性的废墟上重新生长出来的庞大体系

352
00:12:10,561 --> 00:12:12,033
你有没有经历过类似的事

353
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:13,954
一个曾经想通的道理

354
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,280
隔了很久之后

355
00:12:15,281 --> 00:12:17,493
发现它虽然解决了老问题

356
00:12:17,521 --> 00:12:19,234
却悄悄制造了新的困惑

357
00:12:19,761 --> 00:12:21,334
欢迎在评论区分享

358
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:22,153
我是王利杰

359
00:12:22,401 --> 00:12:23,574
我们下期见