1
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玄奘带回来的

2
00:00:01,665 --> 00:00:03,343
和他没带回来的

3
00:00:03,345 --> 00:00:04,913
公元六四五年

4
00:00:05,264 --> 00:00:08,073
长安城的朱雀大街上挤满了人

5
00:00:08,544 --> 00:00:10,593
一个离开了十七年的和尚

6
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带着六百多部梵文经典回来了

7
00:00:14,064 --> 00:00:15,954
走的时候他是偷渡犯

8
00:00:16,225 --> 00:00:18,353
回来的时候万人空巷

9
00:00:18,745 --> 00:00:20,993
唐太宗亲自接见了他

10
00:00:21,545 --> 00:00:23,033
可是你有没有想过

11
00:00:23,225 --> 00:00:25,274
一个人拼了命带回来的东西

12
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最后的命运未必由他决定

13
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哈喽

14
00:00:29,263 --> 00:00:29,733
大家好

15
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我是王利杰

16
00:00:31,103 --> 00:00:34,232
上一期我们讲到玄奘偷渡出大唐

17
00:00:34,264 --> 00:00:35,792
穿过八百里沙漠

18
00:00:35,823 --> 00:00:37,872
翻过帕米尔高原的雪山

19
00:00:37,944 --> 00:00:39,633
在印度待了十二年

20
00:00:39,783 --> 00:00:42,232
赶上了戒贤法师的最后一班车

21
00:00:42,543 --> 00:00:45,463
一个为了搞清楚一个问题而上路的人

22
00:00:45,463 --> 00:00:47,353
终于拿到了他要的答案

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00:00:47,664 --> 00:00:48,993
今天我们接着讲

24
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他带着答案回来之后

25
00:00:50,863 --> 00:00:52,063
发生了什么

26
00:00:52,064 --> 00:00:53,414
玄奘回到长安之后

27
00:00:53,704 --> 00:00:54,914
做的第一件事

28
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不是讲经

29
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不是开宗立派

30
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他做的第一件事

31
00:00:59,344 --> 00:01:00,673
是去见皇帝

32
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这个细节你要留心

33
00:01:03,225 --> 00:01:04,854
他不是先回寺院安顿

34
00:01:05,184 --> 00:01:06,553
而是先去面圣

35
00:01:06,865 --> 00:01:07,374
为什么

36
00:01:08,614 --> 00:01:09,843
因为他要做的事情

37
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一个人做不了

38
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一座寺庙也做不了

39
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他要做的事情

40
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只有国家才能做

41
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他要翻译

42
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翻译他从印度带回来的那六百多部经典

43
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你可能觉得翻译嘛

44
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找几个懂梵文的人坐下来慢慢译不就行了

45
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不是的

46
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玄奘要做的翻译

47
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规模之大

48
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在当时的世界上没有先例

49
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唐太宗答应了

50
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不仅答应了

51
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而且给的条件远远超出了玄奘的预期

52
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朝廷拨出弘福寺作为译场

53
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提供经费 纸墨 食宿

54
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更重要的是

55
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从全国各地抽调了最顶尖的僧人来给他当助手

56
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后来这个团队的规模不断扩大

57
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高峰时期参与的僧人据记载有数百人

58
00:02:01,216 --> 00:02:02,904
你想象一下这个场面

59
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一个人坐在中间

60
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手边是梵文原典

61
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他一句一句念出梵文

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讲解含义

63
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然后和身边的助手一起推敲中文怎么说

64
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旁边有人专门负责记录

65
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有人负责校对梵文

66
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有人负责润色中文

67
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有人负责核验义理

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每一句话都要经过好几道工序

69
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才能最终定稿

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这不是一个僧人在翻译经书

71
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这是一项国家工程

72
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我常常想起一个对比

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两百多年前

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鸠摩罗什在长安也做过同样的事

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姚兴给他设译场

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据记载参与的人也有八百多

77
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两个人的工作方式看起来差不多

78
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都是皇帝出钱 国家供养 集体协作

79
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但他们翻译出来的东西

80
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走向了完全不同的命运

81
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区别在哪里

82
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我觉得要先说清楚他们各自对翻译这件事的理解

83
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鸠摩罗什追求的是一个字

84
00:03:04,289 --> 00:03:04,777
达

85
00:03:05,289 --> 00:03:07,378
他要让中国人读起来通畅

86
00:03:07,849 --> 00:03:11,737
他愿意为了可读性牺牲一些梵文原文的精确度

87
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打个比方

88
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就像一个高水平的翻译

89
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把一首英文诗翻成了地道的中文七言绝句

90
00:03:18,688 --> 00:03:21,777
原文的每一个词未必都能精确对上

91
00:03:21,968 --> 00:03:23,888
但那个意境 那个力度

92
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全过来了

93
00:03:25,049 --> 00:03:27,337
你读的时候不觉得这是翻译

94
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觉得这就是中文

95
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所以鸠摩罗什的金刚经

96
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应无所住而生其心

97
00:03:33,769 --> 00:03:34,577
八个字

98
00:03:34,609 --> 00:03:35,557
干净利落

99
00:03:35,889 --> 00:03:36,818
像一把刀

100
00:03:37,208 --> 00:03:38,487
一千六百年了

101
00:03:38,489 --> 00:03:42,577
老百姓能背 书法家能写 寺庙里天天在诵

102
00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:44,610
玄奘不一样

103
00:03:44,841 --> 00:03:46,270
玄奘追求的是一个字

104
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信

105
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他要精确

106
00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,449
他是亲自读过梵文原典的人

107
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,249
他比任何人都清楚

108
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鸠摩罗什的旧译里有多少地方是意译带来的偏差

109
00:03:57,961 --> 00:04:02,249
他亲眼看到过这些偏差在中国引起了多大的争论

110
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他去印度

111
00:04:03,721 --> 00:04:05,610
就是为了解决这些争论

112
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所以他翻译的时候

113
00:04:07,561 --> 00:04:11,770
恨不得每一个梵文术语都找到一个精确对应的中文词

114
00:04:12,121 --> 00:04:12,789
找不到的

115
00:04:13,001 --> 00:04:14,639
他宁可造一个新词

116
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也不肯含糊带过

117
00:04:16,863 --> 00:04:17,792
打个比方

118
00:04:17,944 --> 00:04:21,032
如果说鸠摩罗什是把诗翻成了诗

119
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玄奘就是把学术论文翻成了学术论文

120
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每一个概念都有严格的定义边界

121
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每一个推理都有完整的逻辑链条

122
00:04:30,863 --> 00:04:32,553
学术上无可挑剔

123
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但问题来了

124
00:04:34,623 --> 00:04:35,412
学术论文

125
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谁读

126
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我说一个你可能不知道的事

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鸠摩罗什翻译过金刚经

128
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玄奘后来也翻译过一遍

129
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叫能断金刚般若波罗蜜多经

130
00:04:47,220 --> 00:04:49,749
光是这个名字你就感觉到区别了

131
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鸠摩罗什的版本五千来字

132
00:04:52,420 --> 00:04:54,619
读起来像山涧里的泉水

133
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一口气淌下来

134
00:04:56,340 --> 00:04:58,910
玄奘的版本在术语上更精确

135
00:04:58,980 --> 00:05:01,470
但读起来需要你停下来想一想

136
00:05:01,701 --> 00:05:03,749
每隔几句就得消化一下

137
00:05:04,061 --> 00:05:05,590
一千多年过去了

138
00:05:05,621 --> 00:05:09,179
寺庙里诵的 老百姓背的 书法家抄的

139
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还是鸠摩罗什的版本

140
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你可能会说

141
00:05:13,021 --> 00:05:14,850
那是不是说玄奘翻得不好

142
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不是

143
00:05:16,261 --> 00:05:17,470
恰恰相反

144
00:05:17,742 --> 00:05:19,050
从学术的角度来说

145
00:05:19,381 --> 00:05:21,110
玄奘翻得更准确

146
00:05:21,422 --> 00:05:22,650
但翻译这件事

147
00:05:23,061 --> 00:05:24,621
准确和传播

148
00:05:24,622 --> 00:05:26,431
有时候是两个方向

149
00:05:26,821 --> 00:05:27,730
我讲这个对比

150
00:05:28,021 --> 00:05:29,470
不是要分出高下

151
00:05:29,662 --> 00:05:31,583
我是想让你看到一件事

152
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玄奘带回来了什么

153
00:05:33,894 --> 00:05:37,862
他带回来了有史以来最精确的一整套佛学知识体系

154
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他翻译的经论总量超过一千三百卷

155
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涵盖了唯识 因明 般若 毗昙等多个领域

156
00:05:45,934 --> 00:05:49,343
论精确度 论系统性 论学术含金量

157
00:05:49,413 --> 00:05:51,132
在整个中国翻译史上

158
00:05:51,134 --> 00:05:52,903
没有第二个人能跟他比

159
00:05:53,213 --> 00:05:54,543
这是他带回来的

160
00:05:54,653 --> 00:05:56,122
那他没带回来的是什么

161
00:05:56,574 --> 00:05:59,776
我觉得是一套让这些东西活下去的机制

162
00:06:00,047 --> 00:06:01,326
你要理解这句话

163
00:06:01,328 --> 00:06:03,177
得先看清楚一个事实

164
00:06:03,567 --> 00:06:05,076
玄奘的整个翻译事业

165
00:06:05,367 --> 00:06:06,607
从第一天起

166
00:06:06,607 --> 00:06:09,256
就是建立在皇权供养之上的

167
00:06:09,687 --> 00:06:11,537
译场是朝廷拨的

168
00:06:11,728 --> 00:06:13,656
经费是国库出的

169
00:06:14,088 --> 00:06:16,696
助手是朝廷从各地抽调的

170
00:06:17,208 --> 00:06:20,497
甚至他翻译完成后整理出来的那些经论

171
00:06:20,728 --> 00:06:22,566
刻印和流通的渠道

172
00:06:22,567 --> 00:06:24,609
也要依赖官方的支持

173
00:06:25,039 --> 00:06:27,558
唐太宗不仅给他提供物质条件

174
00:06:27,559 --> 00:06:30,008
还亲自为他的译经写了序文

175
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:31,948
大唐三藏圣教序

176
00:06:32,239 --> 00:06:34,169
就是太宗皇帝亲笔

177
00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:36,208
这个待遇是极高的

178
00:06:36,479 --> 00:06:38,068
一个僧人翻译的佛经

179
00:06:38,479 --> 00:06:40,289
皇帝亲自题序

180
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,248
相当于在那个年代盖上了最高等级的认证章

181
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,648
太宗在世的最后几年

182
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,208
太子李治为纪念母亲文德皇后

183
00:06:50,239 --> 00:06:51,589
营建了大慈恩寺

184
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请玄奘入住任上座

185
00:06:54,799 --> 00:06:55,628
条件更好

186
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:56,969
规模更大

187
00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:58,688
太宗去世后

188
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,328
即位的唐高宗继续支持他

189
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,089
后来又安排他搬到玉华宫

190
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:05,029
继续译经

191
00:07:05,479 --> 00:07:07,609
直到他生命的最后一天

192
00:07:08,434 --> 00:07:09,742
这听起来很好对不对

193
00:07:10,194 --> 00:07:12,322
一个学者得到了最大的支持

194
00:07:12,434 --> 00:07:14,362
可以心无旁骛地做学问

195
00:07:14,713 --> 00:07:16,523
但这里面埋着一个隐患

196
00:07:16,954 --> 00:07:17,822
玄奘的一切

197
00:07:18,194 --> 00:07:19,802
都系在皇帝身上

198
00:07:20,233 --> 00:07:22,283
我打一个你可能好理解的比方

199
00:07:22,673 --> 00:07:24,562
就像今天一家创业公司

200
00:07:24,793 --> 00:07:27,163
所有的资金都来自一个大股东

201
00:07:27,553 --> 00:07:28,502
大股东在的时候

202
00:07:28,913 --> 00:07:29,802
钱管够

203
00:07:29,834 --> 00:07:30,583
团队稳定

204
00:07:30,913 --> 00:07:31,923
什么都好说

205
00:07:32,314 --> 00:07:34,163
可是一旦大股东撤了

206
00:07:34,233 --> 00:07:36,442
或者大股东的注意力转移了

207
00:07:36,634 --> 00:07:37,742
这家公司会怎样

208
00:07:38,928 --> 00:07:39,736
实际上

209
00:07:39,767 --> 00:07:43,577
玄奘在长安的日子并不像表面上看起来那么自由

210
00:07:43,887 --> 00:07:45,156
他晚年几次上表

211
00:07:45,447 --> 00:07:46,726
想离开长安

212
00:07:46,728 --> 00:07:50,617
到嵩山少林寺去找个清净的地方专心译经

213
00:07:51,007 --> 00:07:52,577
但朝廷没有批准

214
00:07:52,928 --> 00:07:53,916
理由很含蓄

215
00:07:54,168 --> 00:07:55,697
但实质很清楚

216
00:07:55,928 --> 00:07:56,677
皇帝觉得

217
00:07:56,928 --> 00:07:59,046
你在长安好好翻译就行了

218
00:07:59,048 --> 00:08:00,336
不要离开京城

219
00:08:00,728 --> 00:08:02,017
你品一品这个意思

220
00:08:02,488 --> 00:08:03,976
这不是限制自由

221
00:08:04,048 --> 00:08:06,096
这是一种非常高级的挽留

222
00:08:06,488 --> 00:08:08,377
皇帝给你最好的条件

223
00:08:08,408 --> 00:08:09,896
给你最高的荣誉

224
00:08:10,048 --> 00:08:13,216
但你连选一个安静地方译经的自由都没有

225
00:08:13,608 --> 00:08:16,497
你的价值被锁定在这个译场里了

226
00:08:16,767 --> 00:08:18,937
这其实就是供养式的挽留

227
00:08:19,728 --> 00:08:21,536
表面上你拥有一切

228
00:08:22,007 --> 00:08:25,577
实际上你被镶嵌在了一个体制的框架里

229
00:08:25,887 --> 00:08:28,416
这个框架的运转不取决于你

230
00:08:28,647 --> 00:08:30,776
取决于坐在龙椅上的那个人

231
00:08:31,328 --> 00:08:32,766
玄奘活着的时候

232
00:08:32,768 --> 00:08:34,607
这套体制运转得很好

233
00:08:34,607 --> 00:08:36,087
他翻译了十九年

234
00:08:36,088 --> 00:08:37,937
产出了一千多卷经论

235
00:08:38,168 --> 00:08:40,886
他的大弟子窥基跟着他学了多年

236
00:08:40,887 --> 00:08:42,857
对唯识学理解极深

237
00:08:43,088 --> 00:08:46,617
窥基后来被称为法相唯识宗的实际创立者

238
00:08:46,847 --> 00:08:48,536
但这里有一个关键问题

239
00:08:48,808 --> 00:08:50,636
窥基本人是什么出身

240
00:08:51,527 --> 00:08:53,697
窥基的伯父是尉迟敬德

241
00:08:53,732 --> 00:08:54,408
对

242
00:08:54,408 --> 00:08:57,697
就是那个凌烟阁二十四功臣之一的尉迟恭

243
00:08:58,088 --> 00:08:59,276
窥基出身将门

244
00:08:59,568 --> 00:09:00,737
家世显赫

245
00:09:00,767 --> 00:09:02,567
他能进入玄奘的译场

246
00:09:02,568 --> 00:09:04,207
除了个人天赋之外

247
00:09:04,208 --> 00:09:07,221
这个家族背景也不是无关紧要的

248
00:09:07,611 --> 00:09:09,581
这条线索你要拉长了看

249
00:09:09,971 --> 00:09:11,701
从玄奘到窥基

250
00:09:11,812 --> 00:09:14,181
这个学派的传承从一开始

251
00:09:14,212 --> 00:09:16,140
就跟唐朝的权力核心

252
00:09:16,212 --> 00:09:17,821
紧密缠绕在一起

253
00:09:18,251 --> 00:09:22,221
它不是一个在民间土壤里自下而上长出来的东西

254
00:09:22,771 --> 00:09:24,900
它是从宫廷往下种的

255
00:09:25,212 --> 00:09:27,461
窥基继承了玄奘的学问

256
00:09:27,572 --> 00:09:29,061
写了大量的注疏

257
00:09:29,491 --> 00:09:31,000
但窥基去世之后呢

258
00:09:31,652 --> 00:09:32,920
窥基传给了慧沼

259
00:09:33,412 --> 00:09:34,941
慧沼传给了智周

260
00:09:35,532 --> 00:09:36,240
就这么三代

261
00:09:36,652 --> 00:09:38,156
然后就断了

262
00:09:38,428 --> 00:09:39,516
关于这个断

263
00:09:39,627 --> 00:09:42,197
以前有过一种流传很广的说法

264
00:09:42,267 --> 00:09:43,996
说法相宗之所以断

265
00:09:44,028 --> 00:09:46,827
是因为唯识学太精密了 太难了

266
00:09:46,828 --> 00:09:49,237
门槛太高了 普通人学不了

267
00:09:49,387 --> 00:09:52,116
我在之前的节目里也提过这个说法

268
00:09:52,428 --> 00:09:54,786
但你如果仔细去看历史的时间线

269
00:09:54,788 --> 00:09:56,876
会发现事情没有那么简单

270
00:09:57,188 --> 00:10:00,116
窥基大约在公元六八二年去世

271
00:10:00,267 --> 00:10:01,457
这一年发生了什么

272
00:10:01,867 --> 00:10:04,357
唐高宗已经身体每况愈下

273
00:10:04,428 --> 00:10:07,916
朝政大权实际上已经开始向武则天转移了

274
00:10:08,107 --> 00:10:09,136
武则天崇佛

275
00:10:09,428 --> 00:10:11,317
但她崇的不是唯识

276
00:10:11,387 --> 00:10:14,031
她支持的是华严宗

277
00:10:14,343 --> 00:10:15,592
原因也不复杂

278
00:10:15,782 --> 00:10:19,511
华严宗的理论框架更适合为她的政治需要服务

279
00:10:19,742 --> 00:10:20,791
武周代唐

280
00:10:20,902 --> 00:10:24,151
需要一套不同于李唐正统的意识形态背书

281
00:10:24,502 --> 00:10:27,511
华严宗讲一切即一 一即一切

282
00:10:27,622 --> 00:10:29,832
这个理论结构可以被解释为

283
00:10:29,862 --> 00:10:32,112
一个人可以成为一切的中心

284
00:10:32,423 --> 00:10:33,332
而唯识学呢

285
00:10:33,823 --> 00:10:36,072
唯识学讲的是意识的内部结构

286
00:10:36,223 --> 00:10:39,992
讲的是每个人要靠自己的修行去转识成智

287
00:10:40,223 --> 00:10:42,192
这套东西对皇权来说

288
00:10:42,223 --> 00:10:43,751
没有什么直接的用处

289
00:10:44,142 --> 00:10:47,431
所以当武则天的注意力转向华严宗的时候

290
00:10:47,663 --> 00:10:50,511
法相宗失去的不只是一个赞助者

291
00:10:50,703 --> 00:10:53,232
它失去的是整个运转的底座

292
00:10:54,102 --> 00:10:56,232
没有了朝廷的译场建制

293
00:10:56,303 --> 00:10:58,232
没有了国家经费的供养

294
00:10:58,303 --> 00:11:01,232
没有了从各地调集人才的行政力量

295
00:11:01,343 --> 00:11:04,181
这个高度依赖精英学术训练的学派

296
00:11:04,183 --> 00:11:05,452
怎么在民间延续

297
00:11:06,423 --> 00:11:07,712
你可以对比一下

298
00:11:08,342 --> 00:11:10,472
差不多同一时期崛起的禅宗

299
00:11:10,543 --> 00:11:12,271
走的是完全不同的路线

300
00:11:12,663 --> 00:11:15,151
禅宗不依赖大规模的经典翻译

301
00:11:15,183 --> 00:11:16,871
不需要国家级的译场

302
00:11:17,023 --> 00:11:19,432
不要求学僧精通梵文术语

303
00:11:19,663 --> 00:11:21,781
六祖慧能据说连字都不识

304
00:11:21,783 --> 00:11:23,072
照样可以开悟

305
00:11:23,382 --> 00:11:24,092
不立文字

306
00:11:24,342 --> 00:11:25,352
直指人心

307
00:11:25,543 --> 00:11:27,381
这八个字本身就意味着

308
00:11:27,382 --> 00:11:30,312
这套东西不需要皇帝的钱就能传下去

309
00:11:30,622 --> 00:11:31,291
一个师父

310
00:11:31,543 --> 00:11:32,172
几个弟子

311
00:11:32,382 --> 00:11:33,302
一片竹林

312
00:11:33,303 --> 00:11:34,052
一口井水

313
00:11:34,342 --> 00:11:35,432
就可以传法

314
00:11:35,943 --> 00:11:38,002
不需要任何外在的建制

315
00:11:38,193 --> 00:11:39,622
而法相唯识宗呢

316
00:11:40,193 --> 00:11:43,043
它需要你读完瑜伽师地论一百卷

317
00:11:43,514 --> 00:11:45,783
需要你搞清楚八识的运作机制

318
00:11:46,193 --> 00:11:48,342
每一种心所法的定义和分类

319
00:11:48,833 --> 00:11:52,322
遍计所执自性和依他起自性的区别

320
00:11:52,833 --> 00:11:56,602
这些东西不是听一个故事 悟一个道理就能过关的

321
00:11:56,833 --> 00:11:58,962
它需要系统性的学术训练

322
00:11:59,274 --> 00:12:00,952
而系统性的学术训练

323
00:12:00,953 --> 00:12:04,643
需要机构 需要经费 需要制度性的支撑

324
00:12:05,034 --> 00:12:07,322
当这些外在条件被撤走的时候

325
00:12:07,514 --> 00:12:10,683
法相宗就像一棵被拔掉了根系的大树

326
00:12:10,953 --> 00:12:13,343
树冠再繁茂也没有用

327
00:12:13,773 --> 00:12:14,363
所以你看

328
00:12:14,694 --> 00:12:15,893
法相宗的衰落

329
00:12:15,893 --> 00:12:18,623
根子不在学问太难 老百姓学不了

330
00:12:18,813 --> 00:12:23,302
根子在于它从第一天起就是一项依附皇权的国家工程

331
00:12:23,653 --> 00:12:24,763
皇权的注意力在

332
00:12:25,133 --> 00:12:26,143
它就繁荣

333
00:12:26,374 --> 00:12:27,603
皇权的注意力一转

334
00:12:27,893 --> 00:12:28,942
它就枯萎

335
00:12:29,214 --> 00:12:30,773
它没有建立起一套

336
00:12:30,773 --> 00:12:32,322
能脱离官方供养

337
00:12:32,574 --> 00:12:35,263
在民间自我延续的传播机制

338
00:12:35,694 --> 00:12:38,143
这才是玄奘没有带回来的东西

339
00:12:38,813 --> 00:12:41,383
他带回来了最精确的知识体系

340
00:12:41,694 --> 00:12:45,743
他带回来了人类翻译史上最庞大的学术工程

341
00:12:46,133 --> 00:12:47,282
但他没有带回来

342
00:12:47,574 --> 00:12:49,172
一种让这套体系

343
00:12:49,173 --> 00:12:50,922
能扎根在普通人中间

344
00:12:51,374 --> 00:12:54,491
不需要皇帝也能活下去的方式

345
00:12:55,003 --> 00:12:57,172
我并不觉得这是玄奘的失败

346
00:12:57,403 --> 00:12:59,812
一个人能做的事情是有限度的

347
00:12:59,883 --> 00:13:02,971
他用一辈子的时间做了他能做的那部分

348
00:13:03,003 --> 00:13:05,052
而且做到了人类的极限

349
00:13:05,722 --> 00:13:06,591
翻译这件事

350
00:13:06,803 --> 00:13:08,532
他做到了前无古人

351
00:13:08,883 --> 00:13:10,192
但传播这件事

352
00:13:10,602 --> 00:13:12,251
不是一个人能设计的

353
00:13:12,482 --> 00:13:15,011
它取决于太多他控制不了的东西

354
00:13:15,482 --> 00:13:18,224
时代 政治 人心的走向

355
00:13:18,496 --> 00:13:19,984
我有时候会想一个问题

356
00:13:20,376 --> 00:13:23,064
如果鸠摩罗什活在玄奘的时代

357
00:13:23,095 --> 00:13:25,625
或者玄奘活在鸠摩罗什的时代

358
00:13:25,695 --> 00:13:26,925
结果会不一样吗

359
00:13:27,536 --> 00:13:28,545
可能不会

360
00:13:28,776 --> 00:13:30,375
因为他们各自代表的

361
00:13:30,376 --> 00:13:32,064
不是两个人的选择

362
00:13:32,136 --> 00:13:36,185
而是翻译这件事本身就有的一个永恒矛盾

363
00:13:36,536 --> 00:13:37,484
你是要准确

364
00:13:37,856 --> 00:13:38,685
还是要传播

365
00:13:39,256 --> 00:13:41,425
你是要忠于原文的每一个字

366
00:13:41,496 --> 00:13:44,724
还是要让更多的人读懂 记住 用起来

367
00:13:45,415 --> 00:13:47,785
鸠摩罗什选了传播那一端

368
00:13:48,136 --> 00:13:51,145
所以他的金刚经活了一千六百年

369
00:13:51,376 --> 00:13:53,385
至今还在老百姓嘴边

370
00:13:53,736 --> 00:13:55,824
玄奘选了准确那一端

371
00:13:56,695 --> 00:13:59,744
所以他的译本在学术上是黄金标准

372
00:13:59,776 --> 00:14:01,505
但读的人越来越少

373
00:14:01,976 --> 00:14:03,704
这不是谁对谁错

374
00:14:04,175 --> 00:14:05,625
这是一把双刃剑

375
00:14:06,055 --> 00:14:08,219
两个人各握了一面

376
00:14:08,529 --> 00:14:10,369
回过头来看这整段历史

377
00:14:10,369 --> 00:14:12,619
我觉得最让人感慨的是一件事

378
00:14:13,129 --> 00:14:16,219
玄奘用十七年走到了知识的源头

379
00:14:16,609 --> 00:14:20,219
又用十九年把他得到的东西逐字翻译了出来

380
00:14:20,570 --> 00:14:23,689
这个工作量 这个精确度 这份执着

381
00:14:23,690 --> 00:14:26,658
放在整个人类文明史上都极为罕见

382
00:14:27,129 --> 00:14:29,939
但这一切完成之后不过两三代人

383
00:14:30,009 --> 00:14:33,484
他倾尽一生建立的学派就断了传承

384
00:14:34,035 --> 00:14:35,925
你可能也见过类似的事情

385
00:14:36,155 --> 00:14:38,395
有些人做出了了不起的成果

386
00:14:38,396 --> 00:14:40,245
但成果没有存活下来

387
00:14:40,555 --> 00:14:42,365
不是因为成果本身不好

388
00:14:42,435 --> 00:14:45,804
而是因为成果存活需要的条件消失了

389
00:14:45,915 --> 00:14:48,995
一个项目 一家公司 一个研究方向

390
00:14:48,996 --> 00:14:51,285
有时候不是死于质量不够

391
00:14:51,315 --> 00:14:53,245
而是死于土壤不对

392
00:14:53,675 --> 00:14:56,765
玄奘的故事告诉我们一个非常朴素的道理

393
00:14:56,915 --> 00:14:58,525
一个东西要活下去

394
00:14:58,555 --> 00:15:00,645
光是做得好是不够的

395
00:15:00,996 --> 00:15:02,115
它还需要一种

396
00:15:02,116 --> 00:15:05,005
能让自己不依赖任何特定支撑

397
00:15:05,035 --> 00:15:06,885
就能延续的生命力

398
00:15:07,756 --> 00:15:09,115
知识要活下去

399
00:15:09,116 --> 00:15:12,484
要么足够简洁到每个人都能理解和传递

400
00:15:12,596 --> 00:15:16,765
要么建立起一套不依赖单一供养者的自我维持机制

401
00:15:17,075 --> 00:15:18,964
玄奘做到了前半段

402
00:15:19,315 --> 00:15:19,865
后半段

403
00:15:20,155 --> 00:15:21,444
他没来得及做

404
00:15:21,515 --> 00:15:22,314
或者说

405
00:15:22,315 --> 00:15:25,054
那不是他一个人做得了的事情

406
00:15:25,405 --> 00:15:28,174
但佛法在中国并没有因此断掉

407
00:15:28,405 --> 00:15:29,375
恰恰相反

408
00:15:29,565 --> 00:15:32,295
在法相宗沉寂下去的同时

409
00:15:32,445 --> 00:15:35,655
中国的佛教徒做了一件更惊人的事情

410
00:15:35,925 --> 00:15:39,255
他们不再等印度人告诉他们该怎么修行了

411
00:15:39,366 --> 00:15:41,724
他们开始用中国人自己的方式

412
00:15:41,726 --> 00:15:43,895
重新理解佛陀的教法

413
00:15:44,165 --> 00:15:47,854
天台宗 华严宗 禅宗 净土宗

414
00:15:48,045 --> 00:15:51,174
这些完全在中国土壤上长出来的宗派

415
00:15:51,285 --> 00:15:53,174
即将登上历史的舞台

416
00:15:53,565 --> 00:15:55,194
它们和印度佛学的关系

417
00:15:55,486 --> 00:15:56,405
不是照搬

418
00:15:56,405 --> 00:15:57,115
不是翻译

419
00:15:57,445 --> 00:15:59,415
而是一种全新的创造

420
00:15:59,805 --> 00:16:01,655
这些宗派能活到今天

421
00:16:01,726 --> 00:16:03,295
靠的不是皇帝的钱

422
00:16:04,045 --> 00:16:09,068
靠的是它们找到了一种能扎进普通人生活里的方式

423
00:16:09,668 --> 00:16:10,255
这个故事

424
00:16:10,465 --> 00:16:11,912
我们下一期接着讲

425
00:16:12,262 --> 00:16:14,446
你觉得玄奘的遭遇给你什么启发

426
00:16:15,016 --> 00:16:18,735
一个做得极其精密的东西和一个做得足够简洁的东西

427
00:16:18,807 --> 00:16:20,112
哪个更容易活下来

428
00:16:20,562 --> 00:16:23,425
你在工作或者生活中有没有类似的体会

429
00:16:23,915 --> 00:16:25,161
聊聊你的想法

430
00:16:25,232 --> 00:16:25,900
我是王利杰

431
00:16:26,189 --> 00:16:27,325
我们下期见