1
00:00:00,383 --> 00:00:03,036
与神对话>说你就是神

2
00:00:03,262 --> 00:00:05,596
佛陀说你连自己都不是

3
00:00:05,863 --> 00:00:06,416
一本书

4
00:00:06,863 --> 00:00:08,836
全球卖了一千三百万册

5
00:00:08,983 --> 00:00:10,715
翻译成三十七种语言

6
00:00:10,743 --> 00:00:14,435
在纽约时报畅销榜上连续挂了一百三十七周

7
00:00:14,702 --> 00:00:16,262
无数人读完之后说

8
00:00:16,263 --> 00:00:18,396
我终于理解了宇宙的真相

9
00:00:18,582 --> 00:00:21,135
这本书就是尼尔沃尔什的<与神对话>

10
00:00:21,888 --> 00:00:22,689
它说

11
00:00:22,742 --> 00:00:25,635
神不是一个坐在云端审判你的老人

12
00:00:25,943 --> 00:00:26,295
它说

13
00:00:26,582 --> 00:00:28,501
你跟神之间没有距离

14
00:00:28,503 --> 00:00:30,356
因为你就是神的一部分

15
00:00:30,623 --> 00:00:30,975
它说

16
00:00:31,343 --> 00:00:33,701
你所经历的一切痛苦和快乐

17
00:00:33,703 --> 00:00:35,396
都是你自己创造的

18
00:00:35,662 --> 00:00:36,015
它说

19
00:00:36,262 --> 00:00:37,981
这个宇宙里没有地狱

20
00:00:37,982 --> 00:00:40,956
只有爱和恐惧两种底层代码

21
00:00:41,222 --> 00:00:42,456
听起来很美对不对

22
00:00:42,942 --> 00:00:45,621
很多人读完之后觉得整个人都轻了

23
00:00:45,622 --> 00:00:47,515
好像被宇宙抱了一下

24
00:00:48,103 --> 00:00:48,655
但今天

25
00:00:48,942 --> 00:00:50,195
我想做一件事

26
00:00:50,383 --> 00:00:53,835
我想把这本书放进佛学的显微镜下面

27
00:00:54,063 --> 00:00:56,036
不是为了证明谁对谁错

28
00:00:56,063 --> 00:00:57,716
而是让你看见一件事

29
00:00:57,823 --> 00:00:59,942
这本书到底走到了哪一步

30
00:00:59,942 --> 00:01:01,716
又在哪一步停了下来

31
00:01:02,023 --> 00:01:02,335
哈喽

32
00:01:02,582 --> 00:01:03,055
大家好

33
00:01:03,343 --> 00:01:04,396
我是王利杰

34
00:01:04,623 --> 00:01:06,956
这是用佛学解构名著系列

35
00:01:07,183 --> 00:01:10,236
之前我们拆过镜花缘的种子与时令

36
00:01:10,302 --> 00:01:12,115
红楼梦的遍计所执

37
00:01:12,302 --> 00:01:13,596
西游记的心猿

38
00:01:13,742 --> 00:01:15,055
集异璧的不完备性

39
00:01:15,423 --> 00:01:16,956
浮士德的末那识

40
00:01:17,302 --> 00:01:20,215
今天我们来看一本在全球灵性圈子里

41
00:01:20,263 --> 00:01:22,316
影响力巨大的当代作品

42
00:01:22,662 --> 00:01:23,572
先说一句公道话

43
00:01:23,582 --> 00:01:27,355
<与神对话>做对了一件非常重要的事情

44
00:01:27,543 --> 00:01:31,115
它拆掉了传统宗教给几十亿人搭的那堵墙

45
00:01:31,703 --> 00:01:32,296
什么墙呢

46
00:01:32,783 --> 00:01:34,096
就是那个"你是罪人

47
00:01:34,503 --> 00:01:35,621
神在天上

48
00:01:35,623 --> 00:01:36,876
你得跪下来求

49
00:01:36,942 --> 00:01:39,275
他看心情决定要不要理你"的墙

50
00:01:39,942 --> 00:01:40,941
几千年来

51
00:01:40,942 --> 00:01:43,141
无数人活在这堵墙的阴影里

52
00:01:43,143 --> 00:01:43,896
害怕犯错

53
00:01:44,102 --> 00:01:45,221
害怕下地狱

54
00:01:45,222 --> 00:01:48,596
害怕一个全能的审判者拿小本本在上面记账

55
00:01:49,063 --> 00:01:49,695
沃尔什说

56
00:01:50,063 --> 00:01:51,115
没有这回事

57
00:01:51,543 --> 00:01:52,215
没有审判

58
00:01:52,582 --> 00:01:53,215
没有惩罚

59
00:01:53,623 --> 00:01:54,756
你不是罪人

60
00:01:55,222 --> 00:01:56,635
你是神的延伸

61
00:01:57,022 --> 00:01:58,096
你来到这个世界

62
00:01:58,382 --> 00:01:59,701
不是来赎罪的

63
00:01:59,703 --> 00:02:00,956
是来体验的

64
00:02:01,462 --> 00:02:03,236
这一步迈得非常漂亮

65
00:02:03,423 --> 00:02:05,022
用佛学的语言来说

66
00:02:05,022 --> 00:02:09,515
他帮大量的人从一种粗重的遍计所执中走出来了

67
00:02:09,862 --> 00:02:10,981
遍计所执

68
00:02:10,983 --> 00:02:14,156
就是你的意识在真实之上贴满了标签

69
00:02:14,263 --> 00:02:16,635
然后你把标签当成了现实"

70
00:02:17,062 --> 00:02:17,816
神在上面

71
00:02:17,983 --> 00:02:18,981
你在下面

72
00:02:18,983 --> 00:02:19,536
你有罪"

73
00:02:19,983 --> 00:02:21,355
这就是一组标签

74
00:02:21,782 --> 00:02:24,836
沃尔什帮几千万人撕掉了这一层标签

75
00:02:25,182 --> 00:02:26,276
但问题来了

76
00:02:26,703 --> 00:02:27,936
撕掉旧标签之后

77
00:02:28,182 --> 00:02:29,635
他贴了一套新的

78
00:02:30,062 --> 00:02:31,455
旧标签说你有罪

79
00:02:31,862 --> 00:02:33,675
新标签说你是神

80
00:02:34,022 --> 00:02:36,276
旧标签说世界充满苦难

81
00:02:36,342 --> 00:02:39,316
新标签说一切都是你选择的体验

82
00:02:39,742 --> 00:02:41,556
旧标签说你要服从

83
00:02:41,622 --> 00:02:43,556
新标签说你要创造

84
00:02:43,943 --> 00:02:44,895
舒服多了对不对

85
00:02:45,543 --> 00:02:46,776
但佛陀如果在场

86
00:02:47,103 --> 00:02:48,635
他可能会微微一笑

87
00:02:48,742 --> 00:02:49,256
然后说

88
00:02:49,902 --> 00:02:52,156
你换了一副更好看的眼镜

89
00:02:52,342 --> 00:02:53,996
但你还是在戴眼镜

90
00:02:54,342 --> 00:02:54,536
好

91
00:02:54,943 --> 00:02:56,116
我们一个一个拆

92
00:02:56,543 --> 00:02:57,575
第一个核心命题

93
00:02:57,983 --> 00:02:59,116
万物一体

94
00:02:59,502 --> 00:03:00,135
沃尔什说

95
00:03:00,462 --> 00:03:01,716
一切都是神

96
00:03:01,943 --> 00:03:02,455
你是神

97
00:03:02,782 --> 00:03:03,635
我是神

98
00:03:03,782 --> 00:03:04,536
石头是神

99
00:03:04,943 --> 00:03:06,036
星星是神

100
00:03:06,582 --> 00:03:07,295
没有分离

101
00:03:07,582 --> 00:03:08,596
只有一体

102
00:03:09,062 --> 00:03:11,955
这跟佛学的缘起性空乍一听很像

103
00:03:12,342 --> 00:03:14,795
佛学也说万法相互依存

104
00:03:14,943 --> 00:03:17,355
没有任何东西是完全独立的

105
00:03:17,543 --> 00:03:20,116
华严经里的因陀罗网就是这个意思

106
00:03:20,383 --> 00:03:22,181
宇宙像一张无限的网

107
00:03:22,182 --> 00:03:24,795
每个节点映射着所有其他节点

108
00:03:25,143 --> 00:03:26,222
但你仔细看

109
00:03:26,223 --> 00:03:28,235
会发现一个根本性的差异

110
00:03:28,543 --> 00:03:30,675
沃尔什的"一体"有一个底座

111
00:03:31,103 --> 00:03:32,336
那个底座叫"神"

112
00:03:32,983 --> 00:03:33,816
万物归一

113
00:03:34,022 --> 00:03:34,735
归到哪里

114
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归到神

115
00:03:36,502 --> 00:03:37,816
这个"一"是实有的

116
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是终极实体

117
00:03:39,663 --> 00:03:41,515
佛学的"空"没有底座

118
00:03:41,782 --> 00:03:44,355
缘起性空不是说万物归一

119
00:03:44,582 --> 00:03:47,036
它说的是万物连"一"都归不到

120
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没有终极实体

121
00:03:49,223 --> 00:03:51,415
没有一个叫"神"或者"本源"的东西

122
00:03:51,502 --> 00:03:53,116
在那里等着你回去

123
00:03:53,423 --> 00:03:57,062
我之前用芯片架构拆解过老子的"道生一

124
00:03:57,062 --> 00:03:57,942
一生二

125
00:03:57,943 --> 00:03:58,496
二生三"

126
00:03:59,223 --> 00:04:01,096
道对应的是物理法则

127
00:04:01,462 --> 00:04:02,836
看不见摸不着

128
00:04:02,862 --> 00:04:04,235
但约束着一切

129
00:04:04,582 --> 00:04:06,701
三对应的是操作系统

130
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是从底层规则中涌现出来的高级秩序

131
00:04:10,263 --> 00:04:11,376
沃尔什说的那个"神"

132
00:04:11,742 --> 00:04:15,836
其实更接近一款大型游戏里的超级管理员账户

133
00:04:16,103 --> 00:04:18,795
管理员在游戏世界里全知全能

134
00:04:18,862 --> 00:04:22,115
能改天气能复活角色能重写剧情

135
00:04:22,262 --> 00:04:23,776
从任何一个玩家的视角看

136
00:04:24,062 --> 00:04:25,115
它就是神

137
00:04:25,822 --> 00:04:29,156
但管理员账户本身是跑在游戏引擎上的

138
00:04:29,262 --> 00:04:31,555
游戏引擎跑在操作系统上

139
00:04:31,663 --> 00:04:33,675
操作系统跑在芯片上

140
00:04:33,702 --> 00:04:35,795
芯片跑在物理法则上

141
00:04:36,103 --> 00:04:37,956
管理员没有写物理法则

142
00:04:38,062 --> 00:04:41,475
它是物理法则一层一层涌现出来的产物

143
00:04:41,862 --> 00:04:43,875
佛学的空和道家的道

144
00:04:43,942 --> 00:04:46,115
指向的是最底层的物理法则

145
00:04:46,702 --> 00:04:47,375
沃尔什的神

146
00:04:47,702 --> 00:04:49,555
指向的是管理员账户

147
00:04:49,783 --> 00:04:51,836
它们压根不在一个维度上

148
00:04:52,142 --> 00:04:54,435
你可能觉得这区别很抽象

149
00:04:54,822 --> 00:04:57,755
但它对你的修行路径影响是致命的

150
00:04:58,062 --> 00:04:59,576
如果有一个终极的"一"

151
00:04:59,942 --> 00:05:03,115
你的灵性之旅就变成了一场回家之旅

152
00:05:03,223 --> 00:05:04,896
你从分离走向合一

153
00:05:05,182 --> 00:05:06,675
从人走向神

154
00:05:06,983 --> 00:05:08,096
终点是确定的

155
00:05:08,343 --> 00:05:09,742
方向是清楚的

156
00:05:09,742 --> 00:05:11,396
旅程是温暖的

157
00:05:11,543 --> 00:05:12,375
但佛学说

158
00:05:12,702 --> 00:05:13,815
你要回的那个"家"

159
00:05:14,223 --> 00:05:15,196
不存在

160
00:05:15,663 --> 00:05:17,315
不是你还没到家

161
00:05:17,382 --> 00:05:19,235
是从来就没有那个家

162
00:05:19,543 --> 00:05:21,622
你以为自己走在回家的路上

163
00:05:21,622 --> 00:05:23,516
可"回家"这个念头本身

164
00:05:23,622 --> 00:05:26,076
就是让你永远走不到头的原因

165
00:05:26,423 --> 00:05:27,555
这不是悲观

166
00:05:28,062 --> 00:05:30,516
这是比你想象的更深的自由

167
00:05:30,903 --> 00:05:32,995
当你不再需要一个终点的时候

168
00:05:33,103 --> 00:05:36,115
你才第一次真正看见你脚下的地面

169
00:05:36,702 --> 00:05:37,696
来看第二个命题

170
00:05:38,023 --> 00:05:39,636
你创造你的现实

171
00:05:39,983 --> 00:05:40,576
沃尔什说

172
00:05:40,983 --> 00:05:43,596
你的思想、情绪、信念

173
00:05:43,702 --> 00:05:45,396
塑造了你经历的一切

174
00:05:45,783 --> 00:05:46,776
想改变人生

175
00:05:47,423 --> 00:05:48,795
改变想法就行

176
00:05:49,062 --> 00:05:51,435
这在灵性圈子里极其流行

177
00:05:51,903 --> 00:05:52,696
吸引力法则

178
00:05:53,062 --> 00:05:54,036
显化术

179
00:05:54,182 --> 00:05:56,995
很多现代灵修都建立在这个基础上

180
00:05:57,382 --> 00:05:59,956
我们频道之前专门拆过显化学

181
00:06:00,062 --> 00:06:02,156
今天再从另一个角度来看

182
00:06:02,622 --> 00:06:05,615
佛学的唯识学确实说过"万法唯识"

183
00:06:06,103 --> 00:06:08,302
意思是你所经验到的世界

184
00:06:08,302 --> 00:06:10,076
都是意识活动的呈现

185
00:06:10,343 --> 00:06:13,875
你看到的颜色、听到的声音、感受到的情绪

186
00:06:13,903 --> 00:06:16,716
这些不是外部世界直接塞给你的

187
00:06:16,742 --> 00:06:18,675
而是你的识在建构

188
00:06:18,942 --> 00:06:20,875
这一点跟沃尔什有交集

189
00:06:21,103 --> 00:06:25,115
但唯识学接下来问了一个沃尔什完全没有碰的问题

190
00:06:25,502 --> 00:06:27,375
那个说"我要创造现实"的"我"

191
00:06:27,622 --> 00:06:28,295
到底是谁

192
00:06:28,862 --> 00:06:29,696
在唯识学里

193
00:06:29,942 --> 00:06:31,516
这个"我"有个名字

194
00:06:31,543 --> 00:06:32,755
叫末那识

195
00:06:32,942 --> 00:06:36,055
末那识就是你心里那个不停说"这是我的想法

196
00:06:36,302 --> 00:06:39,396
这是我的选择、这是我的创造"的声音

197
00:06:39,742 --> 00:06:40,755
唯识学说

198
00:06:40,783 --> 00:06:43,596
末那识本身就是被建构出来的

199
00:06:43,742 --> 00:06:45,701
它不是一个真实的创造者

200
00:06:45,702 --> 00:06:48,156
它是一个自动运行的执着程序

201
00:06:48,423 --> 00:06:50,836
所以"你创造你的现实"这句话

202
00:06:50,862 --> 00:06:52,555
在佛学的手术灯下

203
00:06:52,583 --> 00:06:55,475
里面藏着一个没被检查的前提

204
00:06:55,583 --> 00:06:58,276
那就是有一个叫"你"的实体

205
00:06:58,862 --> 00:06:59,855
沃尔什的体系里

206
00:07:00,103 --> 00:07:01,596
灵魂是真实的

207
00:07:02,182 --> 00:07:04,995
灵魂在一世又一世的轮回中进化

208
00:07:05,023 --> 00:07:07,355
通过不断的体验变得更完整

209
00:07:07,702 --> 00:07:09,516
灵魂选择了你的父母

210
00:07:09,543 --> 00:07:10,915
选择了你的困境

211
00:07:10,983 --> 00:07:12,355
选择了你的课题

212
00:07:12,543 --> 00:07:14,396
一切都是灵魂的安排

213
00:07:15,103 --> 00:07:17,596
佛陀听到这里大概会说一句话

214
00:07:17,822 --> 00:07:20,115
你把轮回包装成了学校

215
00:07:20,262 --> 00:07:22,315
把苦包装成了课程

216
00:07:22,423 --> 00:07:24,516
把执着包装成了选择

217
00:07:24,983 --> 00:07:26,555
你让人不害怕了

218
00:07:26,903 --> 00:07:29,156
但你同时让人不追问了

219
00:07:29,942 --> 00:07:32,555
佛学的无我不是说你没有意识

220
00:07:32,622 --> 00:07:35,755
而是说意识里那个持续运行的程序

221
00:07:35,862 --> 00:07:40,276
那个不停标记"这是我、这些是我的"的后台进程

222
00:07:40,302 --> 00:07:41,956
不是你的本来面目

223
00:07:42,663 --> 00:07:44,255
把这个程序当成"灵魂"

224
00:07:44,543 --> 00:07:46,435
当成永恒进化的主体

225
00:07:46,502 --> 00:07:49,755
在佛学看来恰恰是最精致的一种执着

226
00:07:50,302 --> 00:07:52,156
粗的执着你认得出来

227
00:07:52,343 --> 00:07:53,975
贪财、贪色、贪名

228
00:07:54,543 --> 00:07:56,076
大部分人能看见

229
00:07:56,382 --> 00:07:59,836
但"我是一个永恒的灵魂在进化"这种执着

230
00:08:00,103 --> 00:08:01,795
几乎没人认得出来

231
00:08:02,142 --> 00:08:03,295
因为它太美了

232
00:08:03,543 --> 00:08:04,622
太舒服了

233
00:08:04,622 --> 00:08:05,795
太有意义了

234
00:08:06,343 --> 00:08:09,915
而佛学两千五百年来反复在做的一件事

235
00:08:09,983 --> 00:08:13,836
就是帮你看见那些你根本不觉得是执着的执着

236
00:08:14,463 --> 00:08:14,656
好

237
00:08:14,942 --> 00:08:16,115
第三个命题

238
00:08:16,502 --> 00:08:17,716
爱与恐惧

239
00:08:17,942 --> 00:08:21,516
沃尔什把人类所有的动机归结为两样东西

240
00:08:21,862 --> 00:08:23,196
爱和恐惧

241
00:08:23,463 --> 00:08:24,495
你的每一个行为

242
00:08:24,903 --> 00:08:26,076
要么来自爱

243
00:08:26,103 --> 00:08:27,435
要么来自恐惧

244
00:08:27,822 --> 00:08:29,315
没有第三种选项

245
00:08:29,622 --> 00:08:30,216
选择爱

246
00:08:30,543 --> 00:08:31,555
你走向神

247
00:08:31,903 --> 00:08:32,655
选择恐惧

248
00:08:32,942 --> 00:08:34,155
你制造痛苦

249
00:08:34,462 --> 00:08:37,716
很多人读到这里觉得人生一下子清晰了

250
00:08:37,863 --> 00:08:39,296
以前觉得世界很复杂

251
00:08:39,663 --> 00:08:40,621
现在发现

252
00:08:40,623 --> 00:08:42,155
原来只有两个按钮

253
00:08:42,623 --> 00:08:43,875
但佛学会说

254
00:08:43,903 --> 00:08:46,515
你把三维的东西压成了二维

255
00:08:46,942 --> 00:08:49,635
佛学不用"爱和恐惧"这对概念

256
00:08:49,822 --> 00:08:53,635
佛学用的是贪、嗔、痴三毒

257
00:08:54,143 --> 00:08:54,495
注意

258
00:08:54,663 --> 00:08:55,336
是三个

259
00:08:55,543 --> 00:08:56,515
不是两个

260
00:08:56,903 --> 00:08:58,916
贪不只是恐惧的反面

261
00:08:59,222 --> 00:09:03,316
贪本身就包含着一个你可能没注意到的机制

262
00:09:03,543 --> 00:09:04,956
你越爱一个东西

263
00:09:05,143 --> 00:09:06,956
你就越害怕失去它

264
00:09:07,263 --> 00:09:10,515
爱和恐惧根本不是两个独立的按钮

265
00:09:10,623 --> 00:09:13,155
它们是同一枚硬币的正反面

266
00:09:13,582 --> 00:09:15,115
你按下爱的按钮

267
00:09:15,143 --> 00:09:17,635
恐惧的开关自动就跟着拨了

268
00:09:17,942 --> 00:09:21,875
而且佛学指出了第三个沃尔什几乎没有讨论的东西

269
00:09:22,028 --> 00:09:22,822
痴

270
00:09:22,822 --> 00:09:23,995
也叫无明

271
00:09:24,462 --> 00:09:25,615
无明不是恐惧

272
00:09:26,023 --> 00:09:27,475
也不是缺乏爱

273
00:09:27,783 --> 00:09:31,155
无明是你压根儿不知道自己在戴眼镜

274
00:09:31,582 --> 00:09:32,615
你不是选错了

275
00:09:32,942 --> 00:09:34,716
你是不知道自己在选

276
00:09:35,062 --> 00:09:37,336
沃尔什的解决方案是"选择爱"

277
00:09:38,023 --> 00:09:40,635
这在日常生活中当然是好建议

278
00:09:40,743 --> 00:09:43,635
但佛学的方向不是选择某种情绪

279
00:09:43,783 --> 00:09:48,155
而是看清所有情绪背后那个制造"选择者"的机制

280
00:09:48,462 --> 00:09:50,176
选择爱和选择恐惧

281
00:09:50,503 --> 00:09:51,836
在佛学看来

282
00:09:51,903 --> 00:09:54,196
都还在"选择"这个层面打转

283
00:09:54,582 --> 00:09:55,615
而真正的自由

284
00:09:55,982 --> 00:09:57,716
在选择发生之前

285
00:09:58,503 --> 00:09:59,796
我做一个类比

286
00:10:00,143 --> 00:10:01,716
假设你在做一个梦

287
00:10:02,143 --> 00:10:03,255
梦里有两扇门

288
00:10:03,623 --> 00:10:04,535
一扇写着"爱"

289
00:10:04,863 --> 00:10:05,975
一扇写着"恐惧"

290
00:10:06,503 --> 00:10:07,916
沃尔什告诉你

291
00:10:07,942 --> 00:10:10,115
永远选那扇写着"爱"的门

292
00:10:10,342 --> 00:10:11,056
在梦里面

293
00:10:11,342 --> 00:10:13,235
这确实是更好的选项

294
00:10:13,702 --> 00:10:15,875
但佛陀说的是另一件事

295
00:10:16,302 --> 00:10:18,436
他不是告诉你选哪扇门

296
00:10:18,903 --> 00:10:19,775
他是告诉你

297
00:10:20,102 --> 00:10:21,155
你在做梦

298
00:10:21,582 --> 00:10:24,355
一个是在梦里给你更好的选项

299
00:10:24,743 --> 00:10:26,796
一个是让你醒过来

300
00:10:27,302 --> 00:10:30,115
这就是这两个系统之间真正的距离

301
00:10:30,383 --> 00:10:32,875
还有一个命题值得单独拎出来说

302
00:10:33,023 --> 00:10:34,135
就是"没有地狱"

303
00:10:34,903 --> 00:10:36,495
沃尔什在书里反复强调

304
00:10:36,783 --> 00:10:37,621
没有地狱

305
00:10:37,623 --> 00:10:38,296
没有审判

306
00:10:38,582 --> 00:10:39,596
没有惩罚

307
00:10:39,982 --> 00:10:43,355
神不会因为你犯了错就把你扔进火里烤

308
00:10:43,663 --> 00:10:45,755
所有的经历都是中性的

309
00:10:45,783 --> 00:10:47,836
是你的灵魂选择的体验

310
00:10:47,982 --> 00:10:49,816
这一点跟佛学有共鸣

311
00:10:50,102 --> 00:10:51,076
也有断裂

312
00:10:51,383 --> 00:10:52,176
共鸣在哪里

313
00:10:52,663 --> 00:10:56,475
佛学确实不认为有一个外在的法官在审判你

314
00:10:56,702 --> 00:11:00,076
没有一个坐在高台上的阎罗王在翻你的案底

315
00:11:00,383 --> 00:11:03,355
这种形象是后来民间信仰加上去的

316
00:11:03,702 --> 00:11:06,515
佛陀原始的因果观非常干净

317
00:11:06,743 --> 00:11:08,796
它是一个物理级别的机制

318
00:11:09,102 --> 00:11:10,182
你做了什么

319
00:11:10,182 --> 00:11:12,956
那个做法会在你的意识里留下种子

320
00:11:13,222 --> 00:11:15,062
种子遇到合适的条件

321
00:11:15,062 --> 00:11:16,916
就会生出对应的结果

322
00:11:17,383 --> 00:11:19,076
不需要任何人来审判

323
00:11:19,143 --> 00:11:20,822
就像你把手伸进火里

324
00:11:20,822 --> 00:11:22,501
不需要上帝来惩罚你

325
00:11:22,503 --> 00:11:24,155
你自己就会被烫到

326
00:11:24,582 --> 00:11:25,735
但断裂在哪里呢

327
00:11:26,222 --> 00:11:27,456
沃尔什说没有地狱

328
00:11:27,743 --> 00:11:29,076
然后停在了那里

329
00:11:29,302 --> 00:11:31,076
他给了你一个巨大的安慰

330
00:11:31,182 --> 00:11:32,596
你不会受到惩罚

331
00:11:32,903 --> 00:11:35,155
佛学说的是一件更复杂的事

332
00:11:35,702 --> 00:11:37,316
没有外在的审判者

333
00:11:37,423 --> 00:11:39,196
但有内在的因果链

334
00:11:39,783 --> 00:11:41,316
你不会被谁惩罚

335
00:11:41,582 --> 00:11:43,716
但你种下的种子会开花

336
00:11:44,263 --> 00:11:47,275
而且种子的运作方式不是线性的

337
00:11:47,462 --> 00:11:50,716
不是你做了一件坏事就一定遭一次报应

338
00:11:51,143 --> 00:11:52,176
种子会休眠

339
00:11:52,543 --> 00:11:53,475
会叠加

340
00:11:53,663 --> 00:11:55,576
会在你完全想不到的时刻

341
00:11:55,822 --> 00:11:58,596
以你完全想不到的方式冒出来

342
00:11:59,143 --> 00:12:02,535
所以佛学对"地狱"的态度不是简单地说"没有"

343
00:12:03,462 --> 00:12:04,015
佛学说

344
00:12:04,582 --> 00:12:07,076
你所谓的地狱不是一个地方

345
00:12:07,182 --> 00:12:08,836
它是一种意识状态

346
00:12:09,383 --> 00:12:12,676
当你被嗔恨烧灼到无法自拔的时候

347
00:12:12,822 --> 00:12:14,115
你就在地狱里

348
00:12:14,543 --> 00:12:17,916
当你被贪欲驱动得片刻不能安歇的时候

349
00:12:18,023 --> 00:12:19,515
你就在饿鬼道里

350
00:12:20,023 --> 00:12:22,355
这些不是死后才去的地方

351
00:12:22,423 --> 00:12:25,635
你活着的时候就一直在六道里轮转

352
00:12:26,342 --> 00:12:28,296
沃尔什取消了地狱的恐惧

353
00:12:28,663 --> 00:12:29,716
这是好事

354
00:12:30,102 --> 00:12:32,995
但他同时取消了一样更重要的东西

355
00:12:33,302 --> 00:12:35,155
就是对因果的敬畏

356
00:12:35,503 --> 00:12:36,255
不是害怕

357
00:12:36,582 --> 00:12:37,556
是敬畏

358
00:12:37,822 --> 00:12:39,395
你可以不害怕火

359
00:12:39,462 --> 00:12:41,635
但你最好尊重火的温度

360
00:12:42,062 --> 00:12:44,556
佛学说的因果就是这种温度

361
00:12:44,903 --> 00:12:46,056
你不需要害怕它

362
00:12:46,423 --> 00:12:47,581
但你无视它

363
00:12:47,582 --> 00:12:48,875
它照样烫你

364
00:12:49,222 --> 00:12:51,875
这是沃尔什的系统里一个隐藏的漏洞

365
00:12:52,102 --> 00:12:55,662
当你告诉一个人"一切都是你的灵魂选择的体验

366
00:12:55,663 --> 00:12:56,995
没有对错"的时候

367
00:12:57,143 --> 00:12:59,196
你确实解除了他的恐惧

368
00:12:59,462 --> 00:13:01,796
但你也可能解除了他的警觉

369
00:13:02,102 --> 00:13:04,436
有些人读完<与神对话>之后会说

370
00:13:04,462 --> 00:13:06,022
既然一切都是体验

371
00:13:06,023 --> 00:13:07,995
那我做什么都无所谓了

372
00:13:08,302 --> 00:13:09,995
这不是沃尔什的本意

373
00:13:10,062 --> 00:13:13,875
但他的系统里缺少一个防火墙来阻止这个滑坡

374
00:13:14,182 --> 00:13:16,755
佛学的因果观就是那个防火墙

375
00:13:17,182 --> 00:13:18,701
它不是用来吓你的

376
00:13:18,702 --> 00:13:20,596
是用来帮你看清楚的

377
00:13:21,222 --> 00:13:22,056
每一个念头

378
00:13:22,342 --> 00:13:23,475
每一个行为

379
00:13:23,503 --> 00:13:26,115
都在你的阿赖耶识里种下种子

380
00:13:26,423 --> 00:13:30,716
这些种子不会因为你说"我选择爱"就自动消失

381
00:13:31,062 --> 00:13:32,096
你得看见它们

382
00:13:32,423 --> 00:13:34,115
理解它们的运作方式

383
00:13:34,263 --> 00:13:36,875
然后用正确的方式转化它们

384
00:13:37,263 --> 00:13:38,615
这不是恐惧驱动

385
00:13:38,942 --> 00:13:40,395
这是清醒驱动

386
00:13:40,663 --> 00:13:44,676
就像一个老司机不是因为害怕车祸才系安全带

387
00:13:44,863 --> 00:13:49,275
而是因为他比新手更清楚物理定律不跟你商量

388
00:13:49,783 --> 00:13:51,022
不过说到这里

389
00:13:51,023 --> 00:13:52,995
我必须帮沃尔什说几句话

390
00:13:53,423 --> 00:13:55,875
他做对了一件非常了不起的事

391
00:13:56,263 --> 00:14:00,596
他帮几千万人从恐惧和愧疚中走出来了

392
00:14:01,302 --> 00:14:03,716
一千三百万册销量背后

393
00:14:03,863 --> 00:14:07,395
是一千三百万个曾经觉得自己有罪的人

394
00:14:07,462 --> 00:14:09,316
终于被允许呼吸了

395
00:14:09,582 --> 00:14:11,176
你知道这意味着什么吗

396
00:14:11,582 --> 00:14:15,716
意味着有一千三百万人在某一天晚上翻到了某一页

397
00:14:15,863 --> 00:14:17,196
眼泪掉下来

398
00:14:17,222 --> 00:14:17,775
说了一句

399
00:14:18,062 --> 00:14:19,676
原来我不用害怕

400
00:14:19,942 --> 00:14:21,196
这不是小事

401
00:14:21,342 --> 00:14:24,292
对于从来没思考过"我跟宇宙什么关系"的人来说

402
00:14:24,302 --> 00:14:27,596
<与神对话>可能是最好的起点之一

403
00:14:27,783 --> 00:14:29,836
它降低了灵性探索的门槛

404
00:14:29,942 --> 00:14:32,196
让几千万人迈出了第一步

405
00:14:32,342 --> 00:14:35,275
你不能嘲笑一个帮人迈出第一步的人

406
00:14:35,503 --> 00:14:37,542
因为很多人在那一步之前

407
00:14:37,543 --> 00:14:39,115
连方向都不知道

408
00:14:39,783 --> 00:14:41,261
但佛学做的事情

409
00:14:41,263 --> 00:14:43,755
恰恰是从那一步之后才开始的

410
00:14:44,143 --> 00:14:46,755
沃尔什帮你撕掉了"你是罪人"的标签

411
00:14:46,863 --> 00:14:49,355
然后给你贴上了"你是神"的标签

412
00:14:49,702 --> 00:14:50,255
佛学说

413
00:14:50,663 --> 00:14:52,556
撕标签这件事做得好

414
00:14:52,702 --> 00:14:54,176
但为什么还要贴新的

415
00:14:54,783 --> 00:14:57,975
沃尔什帮你从"恐惧的世界"搬到了"爱的世界"

416
00:14:58,543 --> 00:14:59,056
佛学说

417
00:14:59,302 --> 00:14:59,956
不错

418
00:15:00,222 --> 00:15:02,696
但为什么还要住在任何一个世界里

419
00:15:03,383 --> 00:15:06,556
沃尔什让你的灵魂踏上了回家的旅程

420
00:15:06,863 --> 00:15:07,375
佛学说

421
00:15:07,743 --> 00:15:09,196
你回头看一眼

422
00:15:09,783 --> 00:15:11,875
看看那个说"我要回家"的声音

423
00:15:11,903 --> 00:15:13,395
到底从哪里来

424
00:15:13,663 --> 00:15:16,535
而且你有没有注意到一个很有意思的结构问题

425
00:15:17,383 --> 00:15:19,416
这本书叫"与神对话"

426
00:15:20,349 --> 00:15:21,149
对话

427
00:15:21,783 --> 00:15:22,655
一个人在问

428
00:15:23,062 --> 00:15:24,355
一个神在答

429
00:15:24,982 --> 00:15:27,875
这个形式本身就暗含了一个前提

430
00:15:27,982 --> 00:15:30,275
就是你和神是两个东西

431
00:15:31,062 --> 00:15:31,696
你在这边

432
00:15:32,222 --> 00:15:33,316
神在那边

433
00:15:33,462 --> 00:15:36,836
中间有一段距离需要用对话来弥合

434
00:15:37,342 --> 00:15:39,115
沃尔什说万物一体

435
00:15:39,263 --> 00:15:41,716
但他写书的方式是二元的

436
00:15:42,023 --> 00:15:43,096
一个"我"在提问

437
00:15:43,342 --> 00:15:44,755
一个"神"在回答

438
00:15:45,222 --> 00:15:46,655
如果真的万物一体

439
00:15:46,982 --> 00:15:48,015
那跟谁对话呢

440
00:15:48,462 --> 00:15:49,655
左手跟右手对话

441
00:15:50,423 --> 00:15:52,155
佛学里没有这个问题

442
00:15:52,663 --> 00:15:53,775
佛陀不是神

443
00:15:54,342 --> 00:15:55,475
不是造物主

444
00:15:55,663 --> 00:15:57,155
不是宇宙意识

445
00:15:57,342 --> 00:15:59,596
佛陀是一个醒过来的人

446
00:16:00,102 --> 00:16:03,076
他跟你之间的区别不是物种的区别

447
00:16:03,182 --> 00:16:04,556
是状态的区别

448
00:16:04,822 --> 00:16:05,495
他醒了

449
00:16:05,783 --> 00:16:06,916
你还在梦里

450
00:16:07,462 --> 00:16:09,676
他能做的不是替你回答问题

451
00:16:09,982 --> 00:16:11,355
而是帮你看见

452
00:16:11,462 --> 00:16:14,196
你的问题本身就是梦的一部分

453
00:16:14,582 --> 00:16:15,735
你知道这像什么吗

454
00:16:16,342 --> 00:16:18,395
像一个人戴着红色墨镜

455
00:16:18,462 --> 00:16:19,956
看什么都是红的

456
00:16:19,982 --> 00:16:21,155
觉得很痛苦

457
00:16:21,503 --> 00:16:22,375
沃尔什走过来

458
00:16:22,663 --> 00:16:24,275
说你别戴红色的了

459
00:16:24,302 --> 00:16:25,296
换这副蓝色的

460
00:16:25,663 --> 00:16:27,316
世界立刻变美了

461
00:16:27,743 --> 00:16:28,375
那人戴上

462
00:16:28,663 --> 00:16:29,796
果然好多了

463
00:16:30,302 --> 00:16:31,596
佛陀也走过来

464
00:16:31,982 --> 00:16:34,115
他不递给你任何一副眼镜

465
00:16:34,543 --> 00:16:35,056
他问你

466
00:16:35,543 --> 00:16:36,701
你有没有想过

467
00:16:36,702 --> 00:16:38,015
把眼镜摘了试试

468
00:16:38,863 --> 00:16:39,456
那个人说

469
00:16:39,822 --> 00:16:40,855
摘了我看什么

470
00:16:41,543 --> 00:16:42,015
佛陀说

471
00:16:42,342 --> 00:16:43,395
你看看呗

472
00:16:43,743 --> 00:16:45,316
这就是差距所在

473
00:16:45,623 --> 00:16:47,515
一个是给你更好的滤镜

474
00:16:47,702 --> 00:16:50,235
一个是让你看见没有滤镜的世界

475
00:16:50,863 --> 00:16:51,775
可能有人会问

476
00:16:52,062 --> 00:16:53,135
那看见了又怎样

477
00:16:53,783 --> 00:16:55,535
没有滤镜的世界是什么样的

478
00:16:56,302 --> 00:16:58,076
佛学的回答是这样的

479
00:16:58,423 --> 00:16:59,836
我没办法告诉你

480
00:17:00,263 --> 00:17:02,556
因为我用来告诉你的语言

481
00:17:02,623 --> 00:17:04,435
本身就是一副滤镜

482
00:17:04,942 --> 00:17:06,836
你读的佛经是滤镜

483
00:17:07,022 --> 00:17:09,715
你听我讲的这期视频也是滤镜

484
00:17:10,182 --> 00:17:11,096
法尚应舍

485
00:17:11,542 --> 00:17:12,715
何况非法

486
00:17:13,143 --> 00:17:14,596
但有一点可以确定

487
00:17:15,022 --> 00:17:17,395
当你把所有眼镜都摘掉的那一刻

488
00:17:17,542 --> 00:17:19,422
你看到的不是虚无

489
00:17:19,423 --> 00:17:20,056
不是黑暗

490
00:17:20,343 --> 00:17:21,476
也不是孤独

491
00:17:21,782 --> 00:17:22,875
你看到的

492
00:17:22,903 --> 00:17:26,915
是你在戴任何一副眼镜之前就已经在看的那个东西

493
00:17:27,462 --> 00:17:28,836
它一直在那儿

494
00:17:29,063 --> 00:17:30,355
它不需要名字

495
00:17:30,782 --> 00:17:31,736
叫它神也好

496
00:17:32,022 --> 00:17:33,221
叫它空也好

497
00:17:33,222 --> 00:17:34,175
叫它道也好

498
00:17:34,583 --> 00:17:35,875
都只是手指

499
00:17:36,262 --> 00:17:37,821
那个被指着的月亮

500
00:17:37,823 --> 00:17:39,715
不在任何一根手指上

501
00:17:40,269 --> 00:17:41,068
所以

502
00:17:41,103 --> 00:17:44,172
如果你正在被传统宗教的恐惧和愧疚困住

503
00:17:44,182 --> 00:17:48,875
<与神对话>很可能是你现在最需要的那把钥匙

504
00:17:49,182 --> 00:17:49,736
拿起它

505
00:17:50,222 --> 00:17:51,175
打开那扇门

506
00:17:51,623 --> 00:17:52,476
走出去

507
00:17:52,942 --> 00:17:54,096
但走出去之后

508
00:17:54,462 --> 00:17:55,516
记得一件事

509
00:17:55,903 --> 00:17:57,496
钥匙是用来开门的

510
00:17:57,863 --> 00:17:59,276
不是用来供奉的

511
00:17:59,583 --> 00:18:02,076
你不会把一把钥匙放在神龛上

512
00:18:02,143 --> 00:18:03,435
每天对它磕头

513
00:18:03,903 --> 00:18:05,256
你拿着钥匙开了门

514
00:18:05,742 --> 00:18:06,596
走出去

515
00:18:07,063 --> 00:18:09,635
然后你发现门外面还有门

516
00:18:10,143 --> 00:18:10,576
再走

517
00:18:10,863 --> 00:18:13,675
你发现门本身也是一个概念

518
00:18:13,982 --> 00:18:14,375
再走

519
00:18:14,623 --> 00:18:16,236
你发现那个走路的人

520
00:18:16,262 --> 00:18:18,236
也没你以为的那么实在

521
00:18:18,663 --> 00:18:19,662
到了这一步

522
00:18:19,663 --> 00:18:22,556
你大概就不需要跟任何神对话了

523
00:18:22,782 --> 00:18:24,756
因为对话需要两个人

524
00:18:25,262 --> 00:18:26,942
而你开始隐约感觉到

525
00:18:26,942 --> 00:18:31,316
那两个人从来就是同一场意识运动里的两道波纹

526
00:18:31,702 --> 00:18:33,516
波纹之间不需要对话

527
00:18:34,182 --> 00:18:34,935
它们需要的

528
00:18:35,262 --> 00:18:36,902
也许只是安静下来

529
00:18:36,903 --> 00:18:38,635
看见自己是水

530
00:18:39,182 --> 00:18:40,895
你读过<与神对话>吗

531
00:18:41,423 --> 00:18:43,655
它在你人生的哪个阶段出现的

532
00:18:44,462 --> 00:18:46,675
如果你让佛陀来评价这本书

533
00:18:46,702 --> 00:18:48,056
你觉得他会怎么说

534
00:18:48,702 --> 00:18:50,516
我很好奇你们的想法

535
00:18:50,823 --> 00:18:51,536
我是王利杰

536
00:18:51,863 --> 00:18:53,101
我们下期见