1 00:00:00,308 --> 00:00:02,511 A tree grows eighteen branches. 2 00:00:02,588 --> 00:00:04,051 Which one was planted by the Buddha? 3 00:00:04,668 --> 00:00:05,730 In the last episode, we discussed 4 00:00:06,147 --> 00:00:08,031 that about a hundred years after the Buddha's passing, 5 00:00:08,147 --> 00:00:11,031 the monastic community split in two over a dispute on discipline. 6 00:00:11,387 --> 00:00:12,430 The Sthavira (the Elders) said, 7 00:00:12,468 --> 00:00:14,750 "We follow exactly what the Buddha established." 8 00:00:14,907 --> 00:00:15,570 The Mahasamghika (the Great Assembly) said, 9 00:00:15,907 --> 00:00:16,827 "Times have changed; 10 00:00:16,827 --> 00:00:18,310 rules must evolve as well." 11 00:00:18,588 --> 00:00:21,190 This was the first great schism in Buddhist history. 12 00:00:21,468 --> 00:00:23,550 But the story was far from over. 13 00:00:23,827 --> 00:00:25,867 Once these two camps stabilized, 14 00:00:25,867 --> 00:00:28,510 a new round of internal division began. 15 00:00:28,628 --> 00:00:29,850 Two became four, 16 00:00:30,147 --> 00:00:31,710 four became eight, 17 00:00:31,748 --> 00:00:34,271 and eventually, tradition speaks of eighteen schools. 18 00:00:34,307 --> 00:00:35,831 In reality, there were likely more; 19 00:00:35,868 --> 00:00:38,231 some records list over twenty. 20 00:00:38,268 --> 00:00:40,631 This entire process spanned about three hundred years, 21 00:00:40,667 --> 00:00:44,151 from the 4th century BCE to around the 1st century BCE. 22 00:00:44,588 --> 00:00:44,890 Hello, 23 00:00:45,148 --> 00:00:45,570 everyone. 24 00:00:45,828 --> 00:00:46,871 I'm Wang Lijie. 25 00:00:47,188 --> 00:00:50,151 Today, we are going to draw a panoramic map of sectarian Buddhism. 26 00:00:50,347 --> 00:00:53,186 I don't plan to list all eighteen names for you to memorize— 27 00:00:53,188 --> 00:00:54,470 that's for Buddhist colleges. 28 00:00:54,987 --> 00:00:58,067 What I want to do is help you grasp the key points of divergence 29 00:00:58,067 --> 00:01:01,551 so you can understand why this forest grew the way it did. 30 00:01:01,828 --> 00:01:03,670 You might think division is a bad thing— 31 00:01:03,707 --> 00:01:04,906 how a perfectly good order 32 00:01:04,908 --> 00:01:06,131 shattered into so many pieces. 33 00:01:06,707 --> 00:01:08,990 But I'd like you to look at it from a different perspective. 34 00:01:09,147 --> 00:01:10,590 Consider the development of science. 35 00:01:10,828 --> 00:01:12,266 After Newtonian mechanics was established, 36 00:01:12,268 --> 00:01:13,831 physics didn't just stop. 37 00:01:13,908 --> 00:01:14,930 Then came thermodynamics, 38 00:01:15,147 --> 00:01:16,266 electromagnetism, 39 00:01:16,268 --> 00:01:17,090 relativity, 40 00:01:17,308 --> 00:01:18,510 and quantum mechanics. 41 00:01:18,787 --> 00:01:21,471 These branches occasionally contradict each other. 42 00:01:21,787 --> 00:01:25,831 Even today, quantum mechanics and general relativity haven't been unified. 43 00:01:26,188 --> 00:01:27,971 But would you say physics is in decline? 44 00:01:28,349 --> 00:01:29,149 No. 45 00:01:29,548 --> 00:01:33,590 You would say it's a deep exploration of human cognition in different directions. 46 00:01:34,227 --> 00:01:35,790 Early Buddhist schools were the same. 47 00:01:36,147 --> 00:01:39,070 The Buddha left an extremely concise core framework: 48 00:01:39,347 --> 00:01:41,631 Dependent Origination, Non-Self, and the Four Noble Truths. 49 00:01:42,028 --> 00:01:45,790 But as later practitioners pushed this framework deeper, 50 00:01:46,028 --> 00:01:49,031 they inevitably encountered questions the Buddha hadn't explicitly answered. 51 00:01:49,347 --> 00:01:52,230 Different people gave different answers to these questions. 52 00:01:52,308 --> 00:01:54,391 That is the essence of the sectarian split. 53 00:01:54,707 --> 00:01:55,411 It wasn't a decline; 54 00:01:55,828 --> 00:01:57,671 it was the price of intellectual freedom. 55 00:01:57,867 --> 00:01:58,171 So, 56 00:01:58,388 --> 00:01:59,771 what exactly were they arguing about? 57 00:02:00,227 --> 00:02:03,111 I'll outline the four most central points of contention. 58 00:02:03,308 --> 00:02:04,271 These four questions 59 00:02:04,427 --> 00:02:07,831 cover almost all the underlying logic of the sectarian divisions. 60 00:02:08,108 --> 00:02:08,770 The first debate: 61 00:02:09,108 --> 00:02:10,591 Do things from the past and future 62 00:02:10,747 --> 00:02:11,931 actually still exist? 63 00:02:12,467 --> 00:02:15,151 This sounds like an abstract problem from a philosophy class, 64 00:02:15,427 --> 00:02:18,350 but it's actually directly related to your daily life. 65 00:02:18,627 --> 00:02:19,770 Does the meal you ate yesterday 66 00:02:20,108 --> 00:02:21,091 still exist now? 67 00:02:21,668 --> 00:02:22,491 Common sense tells you 68 00:02:22,747 --> 00:02:24,306 that meal no longer exists. 69 00:02:24,307 --> 00:02:25,251 It has been digested; 70 00:02:25,508 --> 00:02:26,350 it's gone. 71 00:02:26,587 --> 00:02:28,010 But what about your memory of that meal? 72 00:02:28,548 --> 00:02:29,211 The memory remains, 73 00:02:29,587 --> 00:02:30,950 but as for the meal itself, 74 00:02:30,987 --> 00:02:32,670 you would say it is in the past. 75 00:02:32,907 --> 00:02:35,550 Within the Sthavira, there was a very important branch 76 00:02:35,587 --> 00:02:37,230 called the Sarvastivada. 77 00:02:37,467 --> 00:02:39,950 The name itself is its core claim. 78 00:02:40,147 --> 00:02:41,311 "Sarvastivada" 79 00:02:41,627 --> 00:02:42,371 means 80 00:02:42,788 --> 00:02:43,747 all phenomena (dharmas) 81 00:02:43,747 --> 00:02:46,507 That is, all the basic elements that constitute reality, 82 00:02:46,508 --> 00:02:51,270 truly exist in the past, present, and future tenses. 83 00:02:51,548 --> 00:02:53,591 You might find this strange— 84 00:02:53,747 --> 00:02:55,411 how can things in the past still exist? 85 00:02:55,747 --> 00:02:57,651 How can things in the future already exist? 86 00:02:58,147 --> 00:03:00,350 The Sarvastivada school explains it this way: 87 00:03:00,788 --> 00:03:02,830 The substance of a dharma is eternal, 88 00:03:02,948 --> 00:03:04,871 and only its function changes. 89 00:03:05,108 --> 00:03:06,010 It is like an actor; 90 00:03:06,508 --> 00:03:08,270 the person remains the same, 91 00:03:08,388 --> 00:03:10,751 but sometimes they are performing on stage, 92 00:03:10,828 --> 00:03:12,711 and sometimes they are resting backstage. 93 00:03:12,867 --> 00:03:14,911 Being on stage is called the 'present.' 94 00:03:15,027 --> 00:03:17,790 Being backstage is called the 'past' or 'future.' 95 00:03:17,948 --> 00:03:20,471 But the actor themselves does not disappear. 96 00:03:20,828 --> 00:03:21,871 You might ask, 97 00:03:22,027 --> 00:03:25,091 "Isn't this admitting to something eternal and unchanging?" 98 00:03:25,548 --> 00:03:28,131 Didn't the Buddha explicitly say all things are impermanent? 99 00:03:28,528 --> 00:03:29,329 Exactly. 100 00:03:29,587 --> 00:03:32,911 This was precisely where other schools attacked the Sarvastivada. 101 00:03:33,187 --> 00:03:37,070 A branch called the Sautrantika split from the Sarvastivada. 102 00:03:37,268 --> 00:03:39,627 Sautrantika means 'relying on the Sutras.' 103 00:03:39,627 --> 00:03:42,311 Everything is measured by the Buddha's original scriptures. 104 00:03:42,467 --> 00:03:43,131 The Sautrantika said, 105 00:03:43,427 --> 00:03:44,711 "You've made it too complicated." 106 00:03:44,747 --> 00:03:46,170 Past dharmas have already perished; 107 00:03:46,388 --> 00:03:47,830 future dharmas are yet to be born; 108 00:03:47,867 --> 00:03:50,270 only present dharmas truly exist. 109 00:03:50,307 --> 00:03:53,306 Past and future are just projections in our minds— 110 00:03:53,307 --> 00:03:54,627 conceptual constructs. 111 00:03:54,627 --> 00:03:56,431 They are not objective realities. 112 00:03:56,867 --> 00:03:57,971 Does this debate matter? 113 00:03:58,707 --> 00:03:59,670 It is extremely important, 114 00:03:59,987 --> 00:04:02,670 because it relates directly to a core question of practice: 115 00:04:02,987 --> 00:04:04,711 How does karma work? 116 00:04:05,147 --> 00:04:07,907 If the dharmas produced by past actions have perished 117 00:04:07,907 --> 00:04:08,907 and no longer exist, 118 00:04:08,907 --> 00:04:11,131 how can they produce results in the future? 119 00:04:11,788 --> 00:04:13,411 What is the bridge between cause and effect? 120 00:04:14,068 --> 00:04:15,747 The Sarvastivada's answer was: 121 00:04:15,747 --> 00:04:17,170 Those dharmas did not disappear; 122 00:04:17,427 --> 00:04:18,750 they have been there all along, 123 00:04:18,788 --> 00:04:21,790 shifting from an active state to an inactive one. 124 00:04:22,148 --> 00:04:24,190 The Sautrantika's answer was completely different. 125 00:04:24,267 --> 00:04:28,391 They argued karma is transmitted through a mechanism called 'seeds.' 126 00:04:28,507 --> 00:04:31,831 Every action leaves a seed in the consciousness, 127 00:04:31,987 --> 00:04:35,110 which ripens into a fruit when conditions are met. 128 00:04:35,307 --> 00:04:35,971 Did you notice? 129 00:04:36,627 --> 00:04:38,430 This seed theory of the Sautrantika 130 00:04:38,507 --> 00:04:41,750 was later adopted and developed by the Yogacara school. 131 00:04:42,148 --> 00:04:44,790 Yogacara's Alaya-vijnana and seed theory 132 00:04:44,908 --> 00:04:46,271 originated right here. 133 00:04:46,588 --> 00:04:49,031 In my previous lecture on Yogacara, I said 134 00:04:49,148 --> 00:04:51,790 the Alaya-vijnana is like a vast parameter space 135 00:04:51,987 --> 00:04:54,471 storing weights left by all experiences. 136 00:04:54,827 --> 00:04:56,146 The starting point for this idea 137 00:04:56,148 --> 00:04:59,711 is the concept of 'seeds' proposed by the Sautrantika over 2,000 years ago. 138 00:05:00,108 --> 00:05:00,411 See? 139 00:05:00,867 --> 00:05:02,951 A seemingly abstract philosophical debate 140 00:05:02,987 --> 00:05:04,190 traversed centuries 141 00:05:04,267 --> 00:05:07,711 to eventually birth the most sophisticated model of consciousness in Buddhist history. 142 00:05:08,228 --> 00:05:09,011 The second debate: 143 00:05:09,387 --> 00:05:10,331 Is there actually a 'self'? 144 00:05:11,108 --> 00:05:11,610 You might say, 145 00:05:12,108 --> 00:05:14,331 "Didn't the Buddha clearly state 'non-self'?" 146 00:05:14,867 --> 00:05:16,050 What is there to argue about? 147 00:05:16,827 --> 00:05:18,430 That's exactly the problem. 148 00:05:18,827 --> 00:05:20,711 The Buddha did say 'non-self,' 149 00:05:20,867 --> 00:05:23,091 but what exactly did he mean by that? 150 00:05:23,867 --> 00:05:26,550 It is much more complicated than you might think. 151 00:05:26,908 --> 00:05:28,951 There was a school called the Vatsiputriya. 152 00:05:29,307 --> 00:05:31,831 The Vatsiputriya split from the Sthavira nikaya, 153 00:05:31,987 --> 00:05:35,471 and later developed into a larger branch called the Sammitiya. 154 00:05:35,827 --> 00:05:38,990 The Vatsiputriya and their successors, the Sammitiya, 155 00:05:39,067 --> 00:05:42,630 proposed a claim that unsettled all other schools. 156 00:05:43,187 --> 00:05:43,651 They said 157 00:05:44,028 --> 00:05:46,271 there exists something called a 'Pudgala.' 158 00:05:46,867 --> 00:05:48,690 Pudgala is a transliteration from Sanskrit, 159 00:05:49,067 --> 00:05:50,190 meaning a 'person' 160 00:05:50,387 --> 00:05:54,190 or a subject that undergoes samsara and carries karmic results. 161 00:05:54,548 --> 00:05:56,630 Other schools immediately jumped up. 162 00:05:56,867 --> 00:05:58,451 "Aren't you just admitting there is a self?" 163 00:05:59,067 --> 00:06:01,511 The Buddha's core teaching is non-self. 164 00:06:01,627 --> 00:06:03,550 "You are turning back the clock on history!" 165 00:06:03,908 --> 00:06:06,031 The Vatsiputriya response was very sophisticated. 166 00:06:06,149 --> 00:06:06,949 They said, 167 00:06:07,148 --> 00:06:09,951 "I didn't say there is an eternal, unchanging soul." 168 00:06:10,267 --> 00:06:11,911 "That is the Brahmanical position." 169 00:06:12,267 --> 00:06:14,706 "The Pudgala I speak of is neither the same as the Five Aggregates," 170 00:06:14,708 --> 00:06:16,071 "nor separate from them." 171 00:06:16,348 --> 00:06:17,911 "It is not the aggregates themselves," 172 00:06:18,108 --> 00:06:20,990 "but it isn't something that exists independently outside them either." 173 00:06:21,468 --> 00:06:24,870 "It cannot be simply defined as 'existing' or 'non-existing'." 174 00:06:25,307 --> 00:06:27,091 This answer sounds slippery, 175 00:06:27,548 --> 00:06:28,711 but if you think about it, 176 00:06:28,788 --> 00:06:31,110 it addresses a real difficulty. 177 00:06:31,468 --> 00:06:33,990 If there is no form of continuous subject, 178 00:06:34,067 --> 00:06:35,290 then who is being reborn? 179 00:06:35,747 --> 00:06:36,730 Who is creating karma? 180 00:06:37,228 --> 00:06:38,411 Who is receiving the karmic retribution? 181 00:06:38,827 --> 00:06:39,930 Who is practicing? 182 00:06:40,267 --> 00:06:41,490 Who finally achieves enlightenment? 183 00:06:42,108 --> 00:06:45,511 If from start to finish there is only a pile of changing aggregates, 184 00:06:45,708 --> 00:06:49,810 why is there a causal link between the aggregates of one moment and the next? 185 00:06:50,267 --> 00:06:52,711 The Buddha himself actually touched on this problem. 186 00:06:52,908 --> 00:06:55,266 Among the fourteen questions he refused to answer, 187 00:06:55,267 --> 00:07:00,471 were questions about the continuity of the subject, like whether the Tathagata exists after death. 188 00:07:00,867 --> 00:07:02,151 The Buddha's attitude was 189 00:07:02,307 --> 00:07:05,230 that such questions cannot be answered with "yes" or "no." 190 00:07:05,668 --> 00:07:08,350 The Vatsiputriya to some extent inherited this attitude. 191 00:07:08,588 --> 00:07:11,151 But the most surprising thing is a historical fact. 192 00:07:11,468 --> 00:07:15,019 According to the observations of Master Yijing, 193 00:07:15,019 --> 00:07:16,550 who traveled from Tang China to India in the 7th century, 194 00:07:16,788 --> 00:07:19,071 the Vatsiputriya and the Sammitiya combined 195 00:07:19,108 --> 00:07:21,711 constituted the largest Buddhist school in India at that time. 196 00:07:22,067 --> 00:07:23,531 Larger than the Sarvastivada, 197 00:07:23,987 --> 00:07:25,430 and larger than the Mahasamghika. 198 00:07:25,867 --> 00:07:27,750 Think about what that means. 199 00:07:28,067 --> 00:07:30,471 The school with the most followers in Buddhist history 200 00:07:30,548 --> 00:07:35,151 was precisely the one criticized by others for deviating from the non-self teaching. 201 00:07:35,507 --> 00:07:36,331 What does this tell us? 202 00:07:36,827 --> 00:07:40,266 It shows that the concept of non-self in actual spiritual practice 203 00:07:40,267 --> 00:07:43,230 is too difficult for ordinary people to grasp. 204 00:07:43,507 --> 00:07:47,230 While the Pudgala theory is philosophically controversial, 205 00:07:47,348 --> 00:07:50,271 it gave ordinary practitioners something to hold onto. 206 00:07:50,668 --> 00:07:52,747 If you tell someone there is absolutely no self, 207 00:07:52,747 --> 00:07:54,071 they feel nihilistic. 208 00:07:54,267 --> 00:07:59,071 If you tell them there's a hard-to-define but existing continuity, 209 00:07:59,187 --> 00:08:00,747 they can understand samsara, 210 00:08:00,747 --> 00:08:01,531 understand karma, 211 00:08:01,867 --> 00:08:03,391 and understand the meaning of practice. 212 00:08:03,668 --> 00:08:08,271 This is the eternal tension between theoretical purity and practical feasibility. 213 00:08:08,788 --> 00:08:09,610 The third debate: 214 00:08:09,987 --> 00:08:11,451 What exactly is the Buddha? 215 00:08:11,867 --> 00:08:14,550 We touched on this question in the last episode. 216 00:08:14,668 --> 00:08:17,187 The Mahasamghika believed the Buddha is a transcendent being. 217 00:08:17,187 --> 00:08:19,071 His physical body is just a manifestation; 218 00:08:19,108 --> 00:08:22,511 his true existence is infinite and omnipresent. 219 00:08:22,708 --> 00:08:25,230 The Sthavira believed the Buddha is essentially a human being, 220 00:08:25,348 --> 00:08:28,750 albeit one who most thoroughly realized human potential. 221 00:08:28,947 --> 00:08:29,850 During the sectarian period, 222 00:08:30,108 --> 00:08:32,191 this divergence deepened further. 223 00:08:32,307 --> 00:08:35,591 Branches of the Mahasamghika proposed even more radical views of the Buddha. 224 00:08:35,908 --> 00:08:37,030 Some schools said 225 00:08:37,067 --> 00:08:39,267 every word the Buddha spoke was of definitive meaning, 226 00:08:39,268 --> 00:08:41,187 directly expressing the ultimate truth. 227 00:08:41,187 --> 00:08:42,711 There were no "expedient" teachings. 228 00:08:42,947 --> 00:08:44,027 Other schools said 229 00:08:44,028 --> 00:08:47,350 the Buddha could answer everyone's different questions with a single sound. 230 00:08:47,788 --> 00:08:50,990 To the Sthavira, these claims looked like deification. 231 00:08:51,187 --> 00:08:52,091 The Sthavira insisted 232 00:08:52,467 --> 00:08:54,067 that the Buddha experienced birth, old age, sickness, and death. 233 00:08:54,067 --> 00:08:55,667 He would get indigestion after eating, 234 00:08:55,668 --> 00:08:57,147 and his feet would ache from walking. 235 00:08:57,148 --> 00:09:00,591 Even in teaching, he needed to adapt his phrasing for different audiences. 236 00:09:00,707 --> 00:09:02,466 These were not flaws of the Buddha, 237 00:09:02,467 --> 00:09:05,150 but precisely where his greatness as a human lay. 238 00:09:05,307 --> 00:09:08,390 He achieved complete enlightenment within human limitations. 239 00:09:08,788 --> 00:09:10,410 Have you noticed an interesting pattern? 240 00:09:10,908 --> 00:09:13,671 Those schools more inclined to deify the Buddha 241 00:09:13,788 --> 00:09:17,311 often tended to develop the teachings more openly. 242 00:09:17,587 --> 00:09:20,150 In contrast, the schools that insisted the Buddha was human 243 00:09:20,187 --> 00:09:21,586 tended to be more conservative, 244 00:09:21,587 --> 00:09:24,071 strictly guarding the original teachings. 245 00:09:24,227 --> 00:09:25,350 This is no coincidence. 246 00:09:25,548 --> 00:09:27,510 When you view the Buddha as a man, 247 00:09:27,628 --> 00:09:30,071 you respect the specific words he left behind more deeply. 248 00:09:30,227 --> 00:09:34,110 Because these were the life's work of a mortal doing his best; 249 00:09:34,427 --> 00:09:36,270 changing one word could distort the whole thing. 250 00:09:36,908 --> 00:09:39,510 But when you view the Buddha as a transcendent being, 251 00:09:39,628 --> 00:09:41,150 you are bolder in your innovation. 252 00:09:41,268 --> 00:09:43,466 Since the Buddha's wisdom is infinite, 253 00:09:43,467 --> 00:09:46,990 he could continue to reveal new teachings through other means. 254 00:09:47,307 --> 00:09:49,106 Both attitudes have their merits, 255 00:09:49,107 --> 00:09:50,831 but the tension between them is real. 256 00:09:51,028 --> 00:09:52,746 The later rise of Mahayana Buddhism 257 00:09:52,748 --> 00:09:56,630 was, in a sense, taking the Mahasamghika line to its extreme. 258 00:09:56,868 --> 00:09:57,650 The fourth debate: 259 00:09:58,107 --> 00:09:59,947 Is enlightenment achieved all at once, 260 00:09:59,947 --> 00:10:01,850 or through gradual stages? 261 00:10:02,427 --> 00:10:04,130 The mainstream Sthavira view is 262 00:10:04,508 --> 00:10:06,110 that practice must be gradual. 263 00:10:06,268 --> 00:10:10,490 From Stream-enterer to Once-returner to Non-returner, 264 00:10:10,668 --> 00:10:12,226 and finally to Arhat, 265 00:10:12,227 --> 00:10:13,191 you proceed step by step. 266 00:10:13,587 --> 00:10:16,226 Each stage requires cutting off specific defilements; 267 00:10:16,227 --> 00:10:17,230 you cannot skip levels. 268 00:10:17,748 --> 00:10:18,650 It's like climbing stairs, 269 00:10:18,947 --> 00:10:20,230 one step at a time. 270 00:10:20,467 --> 00:10:21,907 No matter how fit you are, 271 00:10:21,908 --> 00:10:24,230 you can't jump from the first floor straight to the fourth. 272 00:10:24,467 --> 00:10:28,191 But some branches of the Mahasamghika held a very different view. 273 00:10:28,349 --> 00:10:29,149 They claimed 274 00:10:29,268 --> 00:10:31,870 that the core of enlightenment is a momentary event. 275 00:10:32,148 --> 00:10:35,791 You can eliminate all defilements in a single instant. 276 00:10:36,067 --> 00:10:38,831 Prior gradual practice is just preparation. 277 00:10:38,947 --> 00:10:42,471 It's like fumbling for a light switch in a dark room. 278 00:10:42,668 --> 00:10:43,890 You may search for a long time, 279 00:10:44,187 --> 00:10:45,951 but the moment the light goes on, 280 00:10:45,988 --> 00:10:47,951 the entire room is illuminated at once. 281 00:10:48,067 --> 00:10:50,630 No corner is lit before another. 282 00:10:50,827 --> 00:10:52,870 True enlightenment is sudden. 283 00:10:53,148 --> 00:10:55,951 This debate would recur throughout history. 284 00:10:56,427 --> 00:10:57,910 Centuries later in China, 285 00:10:58,067 --> 00:11:02,510 the famous dispute between Shenxiu and Huineng regarding sudden versus gradual enlightenment 286 00:11:02,668 --> 00:11:04,110 had its roots right here. 287 00:11:04,587 --> 00:11:06,530 Shenxiu said the body is a Bodhi tree requiring constant polishing; 288 00:11:08,427 --> 00:11:09,910 that is the gradual path. 289 00:11:10,227 --> 00:11:11,931 Huineng said since "originally nothing exists," where can dust alight? 290 00:11:13,748 --> 00:11:15,071 That is the sudden path. 291 00:11:15,668 --> 00:11:18,591 Many think this debate originated within Chinese Chan Buddhism, 292 00:11:18,948 --> 00:11:19,749 but it didn't. 293 00:11:20,148 --> 00:11:24,110 Its seeds were sown during the era of Nikaya Buddhism in India. 294 00:11:24,587 --> 00:11:24,931 So, 295 00:11:25,307 --> 00:11:26,951 that concludes the four core debates. 296 00:11:27,268 --> 00:11:28,490 Have you noticed something? 297 00:11:29,028 --> 00:11:29,951 These four questions— 298 00:11:30,187 --> 00:11:35,110 the existence of Dharmas, the self, the Buddha's nature, and the path to enlightenment— 299 00:11:35,187 --> 00:11:38,150 all point to a single, deeper issue. 300 00:11:38,707 --> 00:11:41,091 Is the Buddha's teaching a closed system 301 00:11:41,227 --> 00:11:42,490 or an open system? 302 00:11:43,067 --> 00:11:44,427 If it's a closed system, 303 00:11:44,427 --> 00:11:47,510 then every word the Buddha spoke is the final answer. 304 00:11:47,707 --> 00:11:50,270 The task for posterity is simply to preserve and annotate. 305 00:11:50,587 --> 00:11:51,986 If it's an open system, 306 00:11:51,988 --> 00:11:53,990 then the Buddha opened a door, 307 00:11:54,148 --> 00:11:58,510 and subsequent generations can and should explore the world beyond it. 308 00:11:58,827 --> 00:12:00,630 The Sthavira tended toward the former; 309 00:12:00,668 --> 00:12:02,471 the Mahasamghika toward the latter. 310 00:12:02,748 --> 00:12:05,630 And those schools that split off from the Sthavira, 311 00:12:05,707 --> 00:12:07,191 such as the Sarvastivada, 312 00:12:07,307 --> 00:12:09,311 actually did something quite contradictory. 313 00:12:09,628 --> 00:12:13,230 Verbally, they insisted on staying true to the Buddha's fundamentals, 314 00:12:13,388 --> 00:12:14,990 but in practice, 315 00:12:15,028 --> 00:12:19,591 they developed an incredibly complex Abhidharma philosophical system. 316 00:12:19,947 --> 00:12:24,630 The sophistication of this system far exceeded the scope of the original teachings. 317 00:12:24,868 --> 00:12:27,110 While claiming to be the most orthodox, 318 00:12:27,227 --> 00:12:31,750 they built a massive philosophical edifice outside the Buddha's original framework. 319 00:12:32,107 --> 00:12:34,870 This is the reality of how human thought develops. 320 00:12:35,187 --> 00:12:37,150 No one can truly remain unchanged. 321 00:12:37,587 --> 00:12:39,510 Even the most conservative faction 322 00:12:39,587 --> 00:12:42,390 inevitably creates while trying to preserve. 323 00:12:42,707 --> 00:12:44,750 Now, let's step back and look at the big picture. 324 00:12:45,148 --> 00:12:47,990 The number "Eighteen Schools" shouldn't be taken too literally. 325 00:12:48,148 --> 00:12:49,510 That is just the traditional saying. 326 00:12:49,748 --> 00:12:52,150 The actual schisms likely exceeded eighteen. 327 00:12:52,227 --> 00:12:55,431 Moreover, lists provided by different texts don't fully align. 328 00:12:56,067 --> 00:12:58,626 But what matters isn't the specific number of sects, 329 00:12:58,628 --> 00:13:00,230 but the patterns in how they emerged. 330 00:13:00,748 --> 00:13:02,427 The disagreements between these schools 331 00:13:02,427 --> 00:13:05,311 seemed on the surface to be about nuances of the Dharma, 332 00:13:05,467 --> 00:13:08,870 but at their core, they were different answers to fundamental questions. 333 00:13:09,268 --> 00:13:10,250 And every answer 334 00:13:10,548 --> 00:13:12,110 did not come out of thin air; 335 00:13:12,227 --> 00:13:14,150 each had its own internal logic 336 00:13:14,227 --> 00:13:17,350 and responded to the genuine needs of certain practitioners. 337 00:13:17,788 --> 00:13:20,451 Remember what we've been doing throughout this series? 338 00:13:21,107 --> 00:13:22,907 At every new historical milestone, 339 00:13:22,908 --> 00:13:26,791 we use the coordinate system from the "Factory Settings" episode to ask: 340 00:13:27,347 --> 00:13:28,270 Is this development 341 00:13:28,347 --> 00:13:31,350 closer to or further from what the Buddha saw 342 00:13:31,548 --> 00:13:33,051 under the Bodhi tree? 343 00:13:33,668 --> 00:13:35,150 My view is this: 344 00:13:35,508 --> 00:13:36,691 The process of sectarian division 345 00:13:36,988 --> 00:13:38,910 involved both convergence and divergence. 346 00:13:39,148 --> 00:13:40,471 The convergence part is that 347 00:13:40,508 --> 00:13:45,350 these schools did immense refinement work on the Buddha's framework. 348 00:13:45,707 --> 00:13:46,986 When the Buddha spoke of Dependent Origination, 349 00:13:46,988 --> 00:13:49,431 they probed its specific mechanisms. 350 00:13:49,628 --> 00:13:50,866 When the Buddha spoke of Non-Self, 351 00:13:50,868 --> 00:13:53,630 they analyzed what Non-Self actually meant. 352 00:13:53,788 --> 00:13:55,947 This effort toward refinement was sincere 353 00:13:55,947 --> 00:13:57,150 and necessary. 354 00:13:57,307 --> 00:13:58,547 The divergence part is that 355 00:13:58,548 --> 00:14:01,451 once you dismantle a living experience of awakening 356 00:14:01,467 --> 00:14:03,711 into increasingly sophisticated conceptual systems, 357 00:14:03,827 --> 00:14:06,311 the concepts themselves become new attachments. 358 00:14:06,548 --> 00:14:09,870 The Sarvastivada school developed a classification of 75 dharmas, 359 00:14:09,908 --> 00:14:13,750 dissecting every layer of reality into minimal units for analysis. 360 00:14:13,908 --> 00:14:15,831 This analytical capacity is awe-inspiring. 361 00:14:15,908 --> 00:14:17,506 But the Buddha's original teaching 362 00:14:17,508 --> 00:14:20,030 wasn't for you to memorize a list of 75 dharmas; 363 00:14:20,707 --> 00:14:22,211 it was for you to see Dependent Origination, 364 00:14:22,587 --> 00:14:23,630 to see Impermanence, 365 00:14:23,788 --> 00:14:25,390 and to see the essence of it all. 366 00:14:25,628 --> 00:14:26,787 The more sophisticated the tool, 367 00:14:26,788 --> 00:14:29,471 the easier it is to forget what the tool is for. 368 00:14:29,947 --> 00:14:31,870 But that is the price of intellectual development. 369 00:14:32,148 --> 00:14:34,027 You cannot demand refinement 370 00:14:34,028 --> 00:14:36,510 while also expecting to keep the original simplicity forever. 371 00:14:36,947 --> 00:14:40,390 Like physics evolving from Newton's laws to the Standard Model, 372 00:14:40,587 --> 00:14:42,990 you can't say the Standard Model betrayed Newton. 373 00:14:43,268 --> 00:14:46,191 It simply went further in the direction Newton opened. 374 00:14:46,388 --> 00:14:48,947 As for whether going further always means getting it right, 375 00:14:48,947 --> 00:14:50,431 that's another question. 376 00:14:50,947 --> 00:14:54,350 Some compare the sectarian split to the decline of Buddhism. 377 00:14:54,668 --> 00:14:56,230 I think that's a misinterpretation. 378 00:14:56,628 --> 00:14:59,390 If a system of thought never diverges, 379 00:14:59,467 --> 00:15:00,791 there are only two possibilities: 380 00:15:01,107 --> 00:15:02,770 either it's too simple 381 00:15:03,028 --> 00:15:04,510 to have anything worth debating, 382 00:15:04,827 --> 00:15:06,571 or it's too closed off 383 00:15:06,868 --> 00:15:08,110 to allow debate. 384 00:15:08,548 --> 00:15:10,311 The Buddha's teachings were not simple, 385 00:15:10,427 --> 00:15:12,791 nor did he ever forbid discussion. 386 00:15:12,988 --> 00:15:14,770 So divergence was inevitable. 387 00:15:15,107 --> 00:15:16,147 One could even say 388 00:15:16,148 --> 00:15:19,910 that the divergence itself proved the vitality of this thought system. 389 00:15:20,148 --> 00:15:22,671 The greatest legacy of the sectarian era 390 00:15:22,748 --> 00:15:26,110 was its cultivation of a rigorous tradition of philosophical inquiry. 391 00:15:26,467 --> 00:15:29,350 Without the 300 years of conceptual sharpening during the sectarian period, 392 00:15:29,508 --> 00:15:32,791 Nagarjuna's Madhyamaka philosophy would have been impossible. 393 00:15:33,107 --> 00:15:36,030 Nagarjuna didn't invent his arguments for Emptiness out of nowhere. 394 00:15:36,268 --> 00:15:40,870 He stood in the philosophical arena built by the Sarvastivada and Sautrantika, 395 00:15:40,988 --> 00:15:43,551 using the logical weapons they had polished 396 00:15:43,668 --> 00:15:46,390 to dismantle the very edifices they had built. 397 00:15:46,868 --> 00:15:47,250 Similarly, 398 00:15:47,668 --> 00:15:49,626 without the Sautrantika's Seed Theory, 399 00:15:49,628 --> 00:15:53,191 the later Yogacara school of Asanga and Vasubandhu could not have emerged. 400 00:15:53,467 --> 00:15:56,826 The system of eight consciousnesses and the theory of seed perfuming 401 00:15:56,827 --> 00:16:00,431 are fruits of Sautrantika thought blooming centuries later. 402 00:16:01,028 --> 00:16:01,951 So you see, 403 00:16:01,988 --> 00:16:04,547 Sectarian Buddhism was not a period of decline, 404 00:16:04,548 --> 00:16:06,350 but a period of infrastructure building. 405 00:16:06,508 --> 00:16:07,770 It was like a construction site, 406 00:16:08,067 --> 00:16:09,386 appearing messy 407 00:16:09,388 --> 00:16:10,510 and shrouded in dust, 408 00:16:10,548 --> 00:16:13,067 but the foundations of all great later schools 409 00:16:13,067 --> 00:16:15,431 were laid during this time. 410 00:16:15,431 --> 00:16:16,067 Now, 411 00:16:16,067 --> 00:16:18,791 concerning the most influential sect, 412 00:16:18,908 --> 00:16:20,350 the Sarvastivada, 413 00:16:20,467 --> 00:16:22,730 what kind of philosophical edifice did it actually build? 414 00:16:23,268 --> 00:16:27,331 How did its 75-vibhaga system slice reality into its thinnest parts? 415 00:16:27,707 --> 00:16:31,270 Is its claim that 'all exists in the three times' and that 'dharmas exist forever' 416 00:16:31,347 --> 00:16:33,250 actually logically sound? 417 00:16:33,827 --> 00:16:34,291 These questions 418 00:16:34,668 --> 00:16:36,510 we will deconstruct specifically in the next episode. 419 00:16:36,947 --> 00:16:39,270 Do you think the Vatsiputriya's answer regarding Anatman and Pudgala— 420 00:16:39,467 --> 00:16:42,591 neither identical to nor different from the five aggregates— 421 00:16:42,628 --> 00:16:43,451 was a retreat, 422 00:16:43,788 --> 00:16:45,171 or a deeper insight? 423 00:16:45,707 --> 00:16:46,130 On this question, 424 00:16:46,628 --> 00:16:48,311 I would love to hear your thoughts. 425 00:16:48,548 --> 00:16:49,250 I am Wang Lijie, 426 00:16:49,587 --> 00:16:50,562 and I will see you next time.