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帝释天

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善业做到极致是什么样

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你这辈子行善积德

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布施修路

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帮助穷人

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而且不是做一辈子

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是生生世世都在做

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终于有一天

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你修到了头

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你死后投生到须弥山的最顶端

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住进了一座叫善见城的宫殿

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成了三十三重天的天王

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脚下踩着的是整个人类世界

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你的寿命

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折算成人间的时间

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是三千六百万年

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你的宫殿由七宝砌成

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身边有无数天女围绕

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你想要什么

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念头一动

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眼前就出现

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你觉得

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到这一步

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应该够了吧

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但佛陀说

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不够

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哈喽

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大家好

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我是王利杰

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今天我们来聊一个佛教宇宙观里非常特别的角色

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帝释天

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他是佛经里出场率最高的护法神之一

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地位大概相当于中国民间信仰里的玉皇大帝

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但他的真实身份远比玉皇大帝有意思

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因为他不是一个虚构的神话角色

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在佛陀的教法里

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他是一个真实存在的案例

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一个用来回答做好人能做到什么程度这个问题的

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活生生的标本

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我们先来看一张地图

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佛教的宇宙观里

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有一个概念叫欲界六天

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从低到高

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分别是四天王天、忉利天、夜摩天

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兜率天、化乐天、他化自在天

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六层天

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像一栋六层楼的公寓

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越往上住

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寿命越长

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快乐越精微

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但有一个共同点

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六层楼里的住户

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全都还有欲望

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只不过表达方式不同

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最底下两层

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四天王天和忉利天

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还跟人间差不多

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有身体的亲密接触

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到了第三层夜摩天

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只需要拥抱就够了

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第四层兜率天

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牵个手就满足了

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第五层化乐天

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对着笑一下

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第六层他化自在天

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连笑都不用

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看一眼就够了

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欲望从粗到细

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但始终都在

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这就是为什么它叫欲界

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帝释天住在第二层

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忉利天

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须弥山的山顶

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忉利是梵语的音译

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意思是三十三

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三十三重天不是三十三层楼

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而是三十三个区域

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像一个巨大的平面王国

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分布在须弥山顶

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帝释天就是这个王国的国王

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那他是怎么当上国王的

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这得从他的前世说起

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根据巴利经典的记载

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帝释天的前生是一个叫摩伽的婆罗门青年

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住在马嘎塔国的一个小村庄里

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摩伽这个人有一个特别朴素的特点

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他喜欢做好事

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不是那种偶尔发善心的做好事

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是把做好事当成一种生活方式的做好事

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他修路、建凉亭、挖水井、照顾老人

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而且他不是一个人做

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他拉了三十二个朋友一起做

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三十三个人结成了一个善行联盟

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一辈子都在修福德

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经典里还记载了摩伽立下的七个誓愿

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他发誓要终身奉养父母

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发誓要尊敬长辈

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发誓要说柔和语

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发誓要不说挑拨离间的话

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发誓要克服悭吝、乐于布施

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发誓要说真实语

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发誓要不起嗔心

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你仔细看看这七条

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每一条都不难

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但每一条都需要一辈子的坚持

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不是做一次大手笔的慈善

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不是捐一次款上一次新闻

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而是日复一日地管住自己的嘴

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管住自己的心、管住自己的钱包

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这种善

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是最朴素的

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也是最难的

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这三十三个人死后

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全部投生到了须弥山顶

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形成了三十三重天

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摩伽因为是领头的

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所以成了天主

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就是帝释天

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其余三十二人成了他的辅臣

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杂阿含经里记载了帝释天的八个名字

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其中一个就叫摩伽婆

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是他前世的本名

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即使当了天王

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他的名字里还留着那个在村子里修路挖井的

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年轻人的痕迹

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所以你看

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三十三天这个名字不是一个抽象的数字

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它是三十三个做好事的人

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用善业换来的一个世界

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整个天界的地基

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是用一辈子的好人好事浇筑的

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听到这里

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你可能觉得这不就是佛教版的天堂吗

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好人有好报

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做善事上天堂

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跟其他宗教讲的天堂故事差不多

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但接下来的部分

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就是佛教和其他宗教关于天堂的根本分歧

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帝释天在天上过得好不好

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当然好

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善见城七宝合成

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天衣自然披身

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天乐不断

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但他遇到了一个问题

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这个问题

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你在人间也会遇到

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他要打仗

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没错

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天上也有战争

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帝释天的主要敌人叫阿修罗

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阿修罗在佛教宇宙观里是一类有天人的福报

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却没有天人的德行的存在

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翻译成大白话就是

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有本事但脾气大

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有能力但爱较劲

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阿修罗本来也住在须弥山上

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后来因为各种冲突被赶到了山下

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从此跟帝释天所在的忉利天反复开战

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这场战争在巴利经典里被多次提及

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帝释天要调动四天王天的军队

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要联合更高层天的力量

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要排兵布阵

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有时候天人赢了

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有时候阿修罗赢了

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打了无数回合

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最后甚至靠联姻才暂时讲和

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阿修罗王把女儿嫁给了帝释天

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帝释天回赠甘露

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你品一下这个画面

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一个做了一辈子好事的人

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死后当了天王

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结果到了天上发现还得打仗

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还得搞政治联盟

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还得靠联姻维持和平

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是不是跟人间的帝王没什么区别

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区别确实不大

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这就是帝释天这个角色最深刻的地方

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他不是一个完美的天神

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他是一个善业做到了极致的人

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投生到了善业能送达的最高处

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然后发现那个地方长得跟人间一模一样

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只是墙壁更华丽

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寿命更长

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但底层逻辑完全没变

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有敌人

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有嫉妒

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有冲突

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有战争

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你想想我们身边有没有类似的人

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有些人一辈子积德行善

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到了晚年确实过得很好

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儿孙满堂

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身体健康

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周围人都尊敬他

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但你仔细观察他的内心

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他还是会因为邻居多说了一句话而不舒服

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还是会因为小辈不听话而生气

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还是会在半夜醒来的时候感到一种说不出的空虚

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环境变好了

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内心的程序一行都没改

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帝释天就是这个人的放大版

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把环境好到极致

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你就看到了善业的边界

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好

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到这里

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故事还只是有趣

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接下来才是真正让我震撼的部分

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帝释天去找佛陀问法了

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这件事记录在巴利经典长部第二十一经

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叫帝释所问经

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这部经的画面感非常强

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佛陀当时住在摩揭陀国一个叫因陀罗洞穴的地方

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帝释天带着他的乐师潘查希卡从天上下来

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先让乐师弹了一首歌给佛陀听

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这首歌不是什么庄严的佛赞

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而是潘查希卡在佛陀成道之前写给一个天女的情歌

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你想想这个场面

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天王驾临

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先放一首情歌暖场

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然后帝释天开始提问

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他问的第一个问题非常耐人寻味

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他没有问如何成佛

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没有问如何超越轮回

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也没有问宇宙的终极真理

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他问的是

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为什么所有的生命

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包括天人、人类、阿修罗、龙族、乐神

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明明都希望没有敌意、没有暴力、没有对抗

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但最终都活在了敌意和暴力之中

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你品一下这个问题的分量

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这是一个刚打完仗的天王问的问题

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他不是在问理论

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他是在问自己的切身困境

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我做了一辈子好事

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修到了天上

236
00:08:08,427 --> 00:08:10,312
结果还是要面对冲突

237
00:08:10,547 --> 00:08:11,052
为什么

238
00:08:11,987 --> 00:08:12,946
这个为什么

239
00:08:12,947 --> 00:08:15,151
不是哲学课上的抽象思辨

240
00:08:15,307 --> 00:08:18,745
是一个人在真实经历了善业的全部回报之后

241
00:08:18,747 --> 00:08:21,711
发现问题没有被解决时的那声追问

242
00:08:21,947 --> 00:08:24,072
佛陀的回答只有两个词

243
00:08:24,507 --> 00:08:26,112
嫉妒和悭吝

244
00:08:26,346 --> 00:08:28,951
一切众生之所以生活在敌意中

245
00:08:29,146 --> 00:08:31,192
是因为嫉妒和悭吝

246
00:08:31,747 --> 00:08:32,912
帝释天追问

247
00:08:33,187 --> 00:08:35,251
嫉妒和悭吝又是从哪来的

248
00:08:35,907 --> 00:08:36,451
佛陀说

249
00:08:36,947 --> 00:08:38,792
从喜欢和不喜欢来

250
00:08:39,187 --> 00:08:40,971
喜欢和不喜欢从哪来

251
00:08:41,626 --> 00:08:42,711
从欲望来

252
00:08:43,067 --> 00:08:43,932
欲望从哪来

253
00:08:44,466 --> 00:08:45,751
从寻思来

254
00:08:46,106 --> 00:08:47,011
寻思从哪来

255
00:08:47,427 --> 00:08:48,552
从戏论来

256
00:08:48,866 --> 00:08:52,312
从那些散乱的、没有实质的概念增殖来

257
00:08:52,826 --> 00:08:54,432
佛陀用一条因果链

258
00:08:54,506 --> 00:08:58,751
从最表层的冲突一路拆到了意识活动的最底层

259
00:08:59,106 --> 00:09:01,331
你注意到这条链的逻辑方向了吗

260
00:09:02,187 --> 00:09:04,432
帝释天问的是外面的问题

261
00:09:04,626 --> 00:09:06,192
为什么世界上有冲突

262
00:09:06,386 --> 00:09:09,351
但佛陀一步一步把答案往里拉

263
00:09:09,706 --> 00:09:10,772
冲突来自嫉妒

264
00:09:11,147 --> 00:09:12,831
嫉妒来自偏好

265
00:09:13,067 --> 00:09:14,552
偏好来自欲望

266
00:09:14,626 --> 00:09:15,851
欲望来自寻思

267
00:09:16,307 --> 00:09:18,111
寻思来自戏论

268
00:09:18,506 --> 00:09:20,292
每一步都是从外向内

269
00:09:20,706 --> 00:09:22,351
从现象到本源

270
00:09:22,746 --> 00:09:25,631
最后指向的不是某个外在的敌人

271
00:09:25,787 --> 00:09:29,672
而是你自己意识深处那台不停运转的分别机器

272
00:09:30,067 --> 00:09:33,072
这就是帝释天这次问法最精妙的地方

273
00:09:33,346 --> 00:09:35,432
他以为自己在问一个政治问题

274
00:09:35,586 --> 00:09:36,951
怎么消除冲突

275
00:09:37,267 --> 00:09:38,091
佛陀告诉他

276
00:09:38,427 --> 00:09:39,751
这是一个意识问题

277
00:09:40,187 --> 00:09:42,432
冲突的根源不是资源不够

278
00:09:42,547 --> 00:09:43,951
不是对方邪恶

279
00:09:44,106 --> 00:09:47,091
而是你自己的意识在不断地制造分别

280
00:09:47,466 --> 00:09:50,631
制造偏好、制造想要和不想要

281
00:09:50,907 --> 00:09:54,032
这个过程不会因为你到了天上就停止

282
00:09:54,267 --> 00:09:56,711
天上的墙壁是七宝砌成的

283
00:09:56,787 --> 00:09:59,672
但你意识的运作方式没有任何改变

284
00:10:00,067 --> 00:10:00,932
经典里记载

285
00:10:01,307 --> 00:10:02,426
在这次对话中

286
00:10:02,427 --> 00:10:04,392
帝释天证得了法眼净

287
00:10:04,667 --> 00:10:05,611
法眼净是什么

288
00:10:06,147 --> 00:10:08,192
就是他亲眼看到了一个事实

289
00:10:08,547 --> 00:10:09,826
凡是有生起的

290
00:10:09,826 --> 00:10:10,951
必然有灭去

291
00:10:11,187 --> 00:10:12,491
这是解脱道的第一步

292
00:10:12,947 --> 00:10:14,192
入流果的证悟

293
00:10:14,466 --> 00:10:15,226
同时

294
00:10:15,226 --> 00:10:18,351
在场的八万天人也证得了同样的见地

295
00:10:18,706 --> 00:10:20,951
但这里有一个非常微妙的细节

296
00:10:21,346 --> 00:10:23,312
帝释天证了法眼净之后

297
00:10:23,547 --> 00:10:25,312
他没有立刻超越轮回

298
00:10:25,506 --> 00:10:26,772
他还是那个帝释天

299
00:10:27,226 --> 00:10:28,591
还住在忉利天

300
00:10:28,746 --> 00:10:30,152
还要面对阿修罗

301
00:10:30,346 --> 00:10:32,152
还要管理三十三重天

302
00:10:32,667 --> 00:10:33,951
他只是看到了

303
00:10:34,226 --> 00:10:35,892
看到了和走出去了

304
00:10:36,226 --> 00:10:37,312
是两件事

305
00:10:37,547 --> 00:10:40,312
这就像你在一间豪华的房间里住了很久

306
00:10:40,586 --> 00:10:43,672
有一天突然发现门从来没有锁过

307
00:10:43,947 --> 00:10:45,152
门一直开着

308
00:10:45,427 --> 00:10:47,751
但你暂时还没有站起来走出去

309
00:10:48,106 --> 00:10:49,871
因为房间太舒服了

310
00:10:50,027 --> 00:10:52,511
而门外面的路你还没有准备好

311
00:10:52,907 --> 00:10:55,751
但这个看见本身已经是质变了

312
00:10:56,147 --> 00:10:57,591
在证法眼净之前

313
00:10:57,706 --> 00:11:00,072
帝释天以为天上就是终点

314
00:11:00,267 --> 00:11:01,706
证了法眼净之后

315
00:11:01,706 --> 00:11:03,792
他知道天上也是旅途

316
00:11:03,866 --> 00:11:05,792
同样是住在善见城里

317
00:11:05,866 --> 00:11:07,471
同样是天王的身份

318
00:11:07,547 --> 00:11:10,385
但内心的地图已经完全不一样了

319
00:11:10,386 --> 00:11:12,025
他知道了自己在哪里

320
00:11:12,027 --> 00:11:14,192
也知道了出口在哪个方向

321
00:11:14,427 --> 00:11:17,985
这比还在天上享乐却浑然不觉的那些天人

322
00:11:17,986 --> 00:11:20,032
已经领先了整整一个维度

323
00:11:20,386 --> 00:11:20,772
现在

324
00:11:21,067 --> 00:11:22,272
我想问你一个问题

325
00:11:22,427 --> 00:11:25,272
我们每个人日常在追求的做个好人

326
00:11:25,346 --> 00:11:27,692
在佛陀的坐标系里处在什么位置

327
00:11:28,027 --> 00:11:32,066
做好事、行善积德、布施修路、孝顺父母

328
00:11:32,067 --> 00:11:33,412
这些是不是修行

329
00:11:33,749 --> 00:11:34,548
是

330
00:11:34,787 --> 00:11:37,192
佛陀从来没有否定善业的价值

331
00:11:37,506 --> 00:11:38,572
善业是必要的

332
00:11:38,746 --> 00:11:39,751
是基础的

333
00:11:39,787 --> 00:11:41,792
是所有修行道路的第一步

334
00:11:42,067 --> 00:11:44,631
但帝释天的故事告诉你一件事

335
00:11:44,947 --> 00:11:46,351
善业有天花板

336
00:11:46,787 --> 00:11:48,792
善业能改善你的处境

337
00:11:48,907 --> 00:11:49,971
从地狱到人间

338
00:11:50,427 --> 00:11:51,871
从人间到天上

339
00:11:51,907 --> 00:11:52,991
从苦到乐

340
00:11:53,226 --> 00:11:56,111
但善业不能改变你意识的运作方式

341
00:11:56,307 --> 00:11:57,745
你做了再多好事

342
00:11:57,746 --> 00:12:00,192
你的意识还是会区分我和他

343
00:12:00,466 --> 00:12:02,672
还是会产生喜欢和不喜欢

344
00:12:02,947 --> 00:12:06,111
还是会因为得到而开心、失去而痛苦

345
00:12:06,386 --> 00:12:09,552
这就是佛陀教法里一个非常核心的区分

346
00:12:10,226 --> 00:12:11,991
善业属于有为法

347
00:12:12,466 --> 00:12:13,371
有为法是什么

348
00:12:13,907 --> 00:12:15,772
是因条件聚合而产生的

349
00:12:16,226 --> 00:12:18,991
必然随条件变化而变化的东西

350
00:12:19,586 --> 00:12:20,491
你做了好事

351
00:12:20,907 --> 00:12:21,991
积累了善业

352
00:12:22,187 --> 00:12:23,392
投生到天上

353
00:12:23,746 --> 00:12:25,511
但善业会用完的

354
00:12:25,866 --> 00:12:28,432
忉利天的寿命是三千六百万年

355
00:12:28,466 --> 00:12:29,591
听起来很长

356
00:12:29,706 --> 00:12:31,831
但跟无限比还是有限

357
00:12:32,226 --> 00:12:34,432
帝释天的善业用完那天

358
00:12:34,506 --> 00:12:36,672
他还是要面对下一次投生

359
00:12:36,986 --> 00:12:37,532
去哪里

360
00:12:37,866 --> 00:12:39,871
取决于他还剩什么种子

361
00:12:40,267 --> 00:12:41,412
善业是止痛药

362
00:12:41,746 --> 00:12:42,831
不是手术刀

363
00:12:43,067 --> 00:12:44,131
它能缓解症状

364
00:12:44,427 --> 00:12:46,032
但不能切除病根

365
00:12:46,386 --> 00:12:48,231
你可以做一个思想实验

366
00:12:48,427 --> 00:12:50,951
假设你现在拥有了帝释天的一切

367
00:12:51,226 --> 00:12:51,892
七宝宫殿

368
00:12:52,267 --> 00:12:54,025
三千六百万年的寿命

369
00:12:54,027 --> 00:12:55,272
要什么有什么

370
00:12:55,586 --> 00:12:56,971
你觉得你会快乐吗

371
00:12:57,787 --> 00:12:59,511
你可能会快乐一阵子

372
00:12:59,947 --> 00:13:01,851
但你能保证你不会嫉妒吗

373
00:13:02,307 --> 00:13:03,251
不会比较吗

374
00:13:03,826 --> 00:13:05,785
不会在某个寂静的瞬间

375
00:13:05,787 --> 00:13:07,331
感到一种莫名的空虚吗

376
00:13:07,826 --> 00:13:09,871
如果你的回答是不能保证

377
00:13:10,027 --> 00:13:12,152
那你就触到了帝释天的困境

378
00:13:12,547 --> 00:13:13,871
不是天上不好

379
00:13:13,986 --> 00:13:16,552
是你带上去的那套操作系统没有换

380
00:13:16,907 --> 00:13:17,731
病根是什么

381
00:13:18,267 --> 00:13:21,312
就是帝释天去问佛陀那个问题的答案

382
00:13:21,667 --> 00:13:26,631
嫉妒、悭吝、喜欢、不喜欢、欲望、寻思、戏论

383
00:13:26,947 --> 00:13:29,451
这些东西不会因为你住的地方变了

384
00:13:29,667 --> 00:13:32,552
收入变了、社会地位变了而消失

385
00:13:32,826 --> 00:13:34,426
它们不在你的环境里

386
00:13:34,427 --> 00:13:35,951
它们在你的意识里

387
00:13:36,226 --> 00:13:38,066
你换了一栋更大的房子

388
00:13:38,067 --> 00:13:39,912
焦虑不会因此搬走

389
00:13:40,027 --> 00:13:41,706
你升了一个更高的职位

390
00:13:41,706 --> 00:13:43,831
不安全感不会因此辞职

391
00:13:44,106 --> 00:13:45,751
你做了一辈子的好事

392
00:13:45,787 --> 00:13:48,745
做好事带来的满足感和身份感本身

393
00:13:48,746 --> 00:13:50,552
也是一种微妙的执着

394
00:13:50,866 --> 00:13:53,631
帝释天的故事有一个特别残酷的隐喻

395
00:13:54,106 --> 00:13:57,471
他是全宇宙做好人做到了顶的那个人

396
00:13:57,907 --> 00:13:59,991
如果做好人能解决根本问题

397
00:14:00,147 --> 00:14:01,831
那他应该已经解决了

398
00:14:01,947 --> 00:14:02,912
但他没有

399
00:14:03,147 --> 00:14:04,011
他还在打仗

400
00:14:04,386 --> 00:14:05,392
还在烦恼

401
00:14:05,626 --> 00:14:07,871
还要跑到佛陀面前问为什么

402
00:14:08,027 --> 00:14:09,792
这不是在否定做好人

403
00:14:09,986 --> 00:14:10,951
恰恰相反

404
00:14:11,267 --> 00:14:12,432
这是在告诉你

405
00:14:12,506 --> 00:14:14,591
做好人是一个必要的方向

406
00:14:14,667 --> 00:14:15,831
但不是终点

407
00:14:16,147 --> 00:14:18,991
终点不在善业能送达的任何地方

408
00:14:19,267 --> 00:14:23,231
终点在你看见善业本身也是有为法的那一刻

409
00:14:23,746 --> 00:14:26,351
就像帝释天证法眼净的那一刻

410
00:14:26,826 --> 00:14:27,532
他看到了

411
00:14:27,826 --> 00:14:29,272
一切有生起的东西

412
00:14:29,427 --> 00:14:30,392
都会灭去

413
00:14:30,667 --> 00:14:31,892
包括天上的快乐

414
00:14:32,267 --> 00:14:33,751
包括善业的果报

415
00:14:33,947 --> 00:14:35,631
包括他天王的宝座

416
00:14:35,907 --> 00:14:36,951
这不是悲观

417
00:14:37,386 --> 00:14:38,546
看到天花板

418
00:14:38,547 --> 00:14:40,831
意味着你终于知道了门在哪里

419
00:14:41,106 --> 00:14:44,631
但帝释天毕竟只是欲界六天第二层的天王

420
00:14:44,907 --> 00:14:46,951
他代表的是善业的极致

421
00:14:47,506 --> 00:14:49,172
欲界六天最顶上那一层

422
00:14:49,466 --> 00:14:50,631
他化自在天

423
00:14:50,706 --> 00:14:52,591
住着一个完全不同的角色

424
00:14:53,187 --> 00:14:56,072
如果说帝释天是欲界里最好的好人

425
00:14:56,386 --> 00:14:59,152
那个人就是欲界里最聪明的控制者

426
00:14:59,667 --> 00:15:01,392
他的名字叫波旬

427
00:15:01,746 --> 00:15:02,572
他不做好事

428
00:15:02,947 --> 00:15:04,631
他做一件更可怕的事

429
00:15:05,106 --> 00:15:07,032
他让你觉得做好事就够了

430
00:15:07,346 --> 00:15:08,471
他不挡你的路

431
00:15:08,826 --> 00:15:11,312
他让你以为这条路已经到头了

432
00:15:11,706 --> 00:15:14,231
帝释天的故事是善业的天花板

433
00:15:14,667 --> 00:15:15,792
波旬的故事

434
00:15:15,866 --> 00:15:17,951
是那个不让你看到天花板的人

435
00:15:18,706 --> 00:15:20,432
但那是下一期的事了

436
00:15:20,667 --> 00:15:23,491
你觉得帝释天的故事给了你什么启发

437
00:15:24,147 --> 00:15:25,985
善业的天花板这个概念

438
00:15:25,986 --> 00:15:27,091
你之前想过没有

439
00:15:27,626 --> 00:15:29,672
你日常在追求的那些好事

440
00:15:29,746 --> 00:15:32,491
它们在你心里到底解决的是什么层面的问题

441
00:15:33,386 --> 00:15:34,091
我是王利杰

442
00:15:34,386 --> 00:15:35,432
我们下期见